Transcript

0:00:19Commute Energy, buddy. Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. And we're recording. Good morning. Today is June 23rd, 2026. This is a meeting of the Board of County Commissioners of Boulder County. We have commissioners Stolzman and Levy present and Commissioner Lo Chumine is excused. We will start with an item to note for the record, and that is a resignation, two resignations. David Begley, her, and Mara Rose from the Community Action Programs administering board. We will now move to our consent agenda, 5A through C. I have a motion. Move approval. Second, all in favor. Aye. And we have one item on our discussion agenda, and that is from the County Attorney's Office Risk Management. Welcome. Good morning, Commissioners. Ashley Bachka, risk manager, here to present the 2026 property insurance reannual to you this morning. It was a good one again, thankfully. We did have an increase of 12 percent to our total insured value. The property rate overall went down 13 percent, so ultimately we ended up with a two percent decrease in premium, which is a savings of 23, 851 dollars, total premium for the 2026 to 2027 period will be 984, 487 dollars. Thank you. Any questions? We have no questions, thank you. I don't either. You continue to amaze me with what you're able to find out there. It's all good news. So

0:02:00we will, I guess, approve this insurance renewal. Move approval of item 6A. Second, all in favor. Aye. Thank you. Thank you. And that brings us to the end of our agenda. We have no executive session items to authorize. Natalie Springet Commissioner Deputy for the record. No, County Attorney Ben Perleman confirmed there are no executive session topics for the board this week. Okay, so that will be removed from our agenda tomorrow, and we will be in recess until one o'clock. Commissioners, are you ready? Yes, we are. Thank you so much. And we're recording. Okay, good afternoon. We are back from our recess from our morning session. We now have all three commissioners present. And we are here for a work session and an update. On our regional trails. And so I will turn it over to Jana Peterson, our County Administrator and Stacey Proctor. Good afternoon, Commissioners. Jana Peterson Boulder County Administrator. I'm here with the team from Community Planning and Permitting Public Works and Parks and Open Space with updates for you on Regional Trails, specifically North Foothills Trail, and the Boulder to Erie Regional Trail. We're here to provide you with information on the status of those projects, see what questions you might have about them, and then asking for some direction for you on funding options for the 2027 budget process. Your decision - making on

0:03:58that won't happen until the fall, but we're looking for some preliminary direction on what options you might want to consider in your 2027 budget. So with that introduction, I will turn things over to Stacey Proctor from Community Planning and Permitting. Great, thank you so much. Yeah, my name is Stacey Proctor. I'm the Manager of the Regional Trails Strategic Projects Regional Trails and Bikewees Group in Transportation Planning and Community Planning and Permitting. And we have folks from other departments. We work very collaborating with other departments. So we have a lot of folks here to answer questions that might come up that I'm not able to answer. Okay, there we go. Perfect. Thanks. So a purpose today, as Jana said, is we want to just give you an update on what's happening with the Regional Trails on BikeWAI projects within Boulder County, Preliminary Input on different funding options and priorities for our 2027 budget cycle. In the memo that we provided, was short updates on all of our regional trail and bikeway projects, including maintenance, updates as well. But I wanted to just go over here in a little bit more detail, the updates for the US 36 North Foothills Bikeway, and the BERT project. These are two kind of bigger projects that are currently in design.

0:05:41So for Northfoothills, we have been working on alternatives analysis for four focus areas that we had determined through the feasibility study needed further analysis. And so we've been coordinating with our partners, getting qualitative and quantitative analysis, getting community input. And based on all of that, we are anticipating that we will have recommended preferred alternatives by the end of July. So we're working towards that goal. And then once that is complete, we will move into preliminary design for segment one. And then hope to be done by that done with the preliminary design for segment one by the end of the year and start preliminary design on segment two. And then we are continuing to coordinate with Parks and OpenSpace CDOT CPW with on the Wildlife Crossing Project and how those two projects can intertwine, coordinate, design through design, the 1041 process potentially construction and funding. And then for the BERT, we've been really busy with data collection. You can see all the lists there survey geotechnical.

0:06:54And a lot of environmental data that we've been collecting. We've also done a little bit of initial ditch coordination and 1041 documentation. We're working on the Community Outreach plan, and we were also developing design criteria. And then based on that, the design criteria and the, all the data we've collected, we are planning to have an initial alignment outlined by the end of the year. If we have received a grant, we've been awarded a federal grant if we are able to get that agreement in place. We may be able to advance the design a little bit further this year, but currently we don't have additional funding to advance beyond that initial alignment. And then we're continuing to coordinate with RTD as the property owner of the land where we are trying to build the BERT and just make sure that we're in alignment with them. And as well as other partner agencies. So in terms of funding options, basically, you know, we know that there's a lot of priority for these projects. There's a lot of interest in these projects and wanting to get them constructed sooner rather than later. And so we, but we also know that there's funding limitations. So we've talked with our consultants to identify what some different funding scenarios could be for 2027 to advance these projects. Um, I won't go

0:08:16into all the details on this table or these two tables, but I'll just say that, um, option one is really how much can we do in one year? Um, what is the scope we can accomplish in one year? So that's what that number represents for both of those projects. Um, option two was sort of like, okay, if we can't. Have that option one amount, what kind of makes sense is a good, um, logical breakdown of tasks is reasonably efficient. Um, and would really make advancement on the project. So that's what option two represents. And then option three is really, if that funding is not available, we can really look at, um, what is available and make determinations on how to invest those resources and continue to make progress, but just slower and less efficient progress.

0:09:02Um, I did want to just note on this, the top table. If we are, if we were to be awarded the SS4A grant that we have applied for, that we would have 620, 000 dollars from that grant for design. So we reduce any of these numbers by 620, 000 dollars. And then on the bottom table, since we have been awarded the role in tribal grant, um, we have reduced those numbers already, um, that would just be the county's contribution after the grant award that we've received. So hopefully that makes sense. So that is really what I wanted to present. Happy to answer questions. Um, but, uh, really just curious if you have feedback on the budget request, what you would like to see us kind of propose. And then if there's, um, the future updates, I know, um, there's a lot happening with these projects.

0:10:00So if you would be interested in future updates and work sessions, we'd be happy to do that as well. All right. Commissioners. With that, we'll turn to your questions and discussion. Um, Commissioner Stoltzman on this week is your turn to kick us off. So we'll start with you. Thank you very much. If I follow the constraint of how you designed it for us, I would support option one for both projects, um, for the foothills Parkway or Foot Hills Bikeway, sorry. And the, um, Bert. And I don't really have any questions. The question I have, you know, you talked about, um, and this is not a real question because I don't think anyone else is going to join me in this position, but where I would go if, if that scenario presented itself through the conversation is in the question on the North Foothills bikeway, like you talked about capacity and breaking it up into segments, but it just seems like there really is an option that's not presented that would do more than segment one to final design that would, would cost a different amount that's not presented to us. And my question would just be what the cost of designing the rest of the segments. Um, with the full, yeah, I do that is in the, let me just, sorry, it's in the memo.

0:11:21The remaining need for design is a 4. 7 million. And so that includes capacity to do it. So what I was understanding you have to say is that like the, well, I mean, I think, you know, the challenge is just processes take time. Like we need to do the 1041 process right before we get to final design. And that takes several, many months. Um, to prepare it and go through that process. So it's like, you know, I think it's not a matter of if we had more people. It's just their complex projects. And the decision making and negotiating and processes that we need to go through that take time. So I think, can I just ask, are you saying that would take more time if we did all the segments? It seems like you would just have more distance in the 1041 process. I may not be quite understanding your question. Can you explain that again? Well, so what I was understanding option one to be is that it's really segment one, um, to final design. And then the other segments, it's just some preliminary design fraction. And so what I'm asking is, is there a capacity constraint and a time constraint that would prevent us from being able to design all the segments to final design next year. Yeah. I think it's a time

0:12:37constraint because we would want to do like either conceptual or preliminary design for the whole thing is our plan. Then submit 1041, get the feedback in the conditions and then do the final design. After that. And that final design could include all the segments if we paid 4. 7 million dollars. Yes, I don't, I just don't know if the consultant could do it in one year. But okay, well that would be my preference. So that's my questions and comments. Okay. Yeah. I think if there's 4. 7 million dollars available, we will definitely talk to our consultants about what they can do. So yeah. All right. Thank you, Commissioner Stolzman. And we'll turn next to Commissioner Lo Chemin. Thank you. Good afternoon. Thanks for watching and for everybody being on deck ready for any questions. I appreciate that. Um, and I did not get a chance to go through the memo completely. Um, just a guy here like four minutes ago from Pueblo, um, from some state meetings. So, um, so I appreciate the grace on some of these questions. I think for me, and I wonder if you, would you be able to bring up those, the options again? I'm seeing them in the packet, but thank you. Um, just help me look at this because it's just the way that I'm visually saying it.

0:13:53Is these are these both, these projects, the U. S. 36 North Foy Hills Bakeway and then the bird. Are they both like in line with each other as far as a priority. From Boulder County's perspective? Um, Commissioner Lo Chamine, that is the purpose of your conversation today. If there is a priority from the board, then the team would take that away. And could plan accordingly for that priority. We have been pursuing them simultaneously to this point. And I think I heard Commissioner Stoltzman express a preference particularly for accelerating North Foothills. So if the other two commissioners would like to weigh in on that, that would be helpful for staff to hear. Okay. Um, thank you. And that's kind of what I was, that's kind of what I was thinking that we would be guiding with the conversation. So the North Foothills, is this the, this is the one that goes to Lions. Corre. And I just wanted to clarify that because it doesn't say lines in there any place. And so what gets my, um, my wonderings going is from the entire county in the region. And these major projects, understanding the different cluster strains.

0:15:03How are you all. Deciding or being able to recommend one project or the other from a prioritization standpoint to the board from a geographical communities that everybody wants? Everybody wants the connections. Everyone's first and final mile. Everybody wants, um, you know, commuting access. We see what's happening on 119. There's so many projects going around. So I just wondered if you had that conversation. Understanding what else you're working with. I mean, I think like as Janna said, I mean, we, we've been pursuing them simultaneously, you know, just kind of continuing to advance them. I think we don't, we don't really have construction funding for either project at this point. Um, and so we are, there are different philosophies. Some people say wait till you get the money and then design it. Boulder County, we've kind of been of the mind historically. Let's design it. Advance it as much as we can and get the money. And then we're ready to go when we get the money.

0:16:00So I think that's kind of the conversation that, that we need to have. So we've definitely, um, been looking at funding opportunities for both projects. I think we have some really good opportunities, but we don't really have anything for construction. In hand yet. So I think it's kind of the way that I've been looking at it as if we want to be ready for construction. If we had all the money today, we could be ready for construction in 2029, right? But we don't have all the money today. Um, and so can we keep advancing it so that when we are very effective grant writing abilities come into play and we hopefully get some grant funding that we'll be ready for construction is how we've been approaching it so far. Okay. And then the 4. 7 that you're talking about a minute ago, that was just for the North Foothills. Yes. 36, is that correct? Correct.

0:16:49Do you have a similar number for the bird? Yeah. It would be about 3 million. And either of those amounts could come from one time funding from the County, correct? I would not be able to answer that question. I mean, it's not the attorney or an OFM question. But yes, I think. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Pressions? I don't have additional questions right now. Would you like to, um, weigh in on your thinking regarding the relative priority of these two? Or if you have a favorite option or alternate option that you would like, um, staff to put forward? Thank you. I don't yet, if you're okay, Jenna, if I come back in the conversation cause I want to hear, um, what, um, other fellow commissioner here says, and I'm breeding through at the same time. Thank you.

0:17:40Thank you. All right, Commissioner Levy. Yes. Thanks. I do have some questions. And first I did not understand commissioner Stolzman to be saying, um, prioritized North Foothills and put all the money into that one. I think it was, I thought it was just a question about could we actually do all of the design for segments for one, two, and three. So I would offer. Commissioner Soltzman and chime in what I heard you ask was related to North Foothills, um, full funding for design for North Foothills is what I heard you ask about. Yeah. So I agree with Commissioner Levy that I wasn't talking about prioritizing one in terms of the other. The two projects are presented really differently in that the North Foothills Project is presented as final design of segment one with preliminary designs on segment two, three, and four. Whereas the BERT was presented as preliminary design of the corridor. So they were put together really differently. And so option one for the BERT option. Um, was satisfactory from my perspective. And I think we should accelerate North Foothills compared to what was presented. But I would rank them equally to each other and do both projects. Thank you for that clarification. So, okay. And that's what I, what I understood. So regarding that 4. 7 million dollar number I read the chart

0:19:12a little bit differently that the total design cost of North Foothills is 7 million dollars is what you have in there in 4 million dollars for BERT. And then budgeted is the 25 and almost a million. So that's what's been allocated through 2026. Okay. So that's all you've already spent that. And so we are. So the remainder that you need. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. So that's the remaining amount. So the question I have, I guess about, um, about the phasing is, um, what I think I heard you saying is if we wanted to fund all of the North Foothills design process and not do it in segments, that it would take longer to get to the design level that would allow us to, um, submit a 1041 or you just submitted. No. Yeah. What I was saying is I just don't think we could do preliminary design 1041 and final design in 12 months.

0:20:20Well, that's where I was going is. I think that would be a challenge. If we try to do the whole, we try to get to design on the whole thing. Then it delays the 1041 hearing. Well, no, I think we would still phase it. And we would still want to do the preliminary design. I mean, we could either do conceptual design for the whole thing. Um, or preliminary design for segment one conceptual design for the rest. We've talked to development review and they said that would be sufficient level of information to have a meaningful process. We could, if we were going to do preliminary design of segments two, three, and four, I would probably recommend that. Do preliminary design for the whole corridor. Then 1041, then final design of whatever. Whatever we have funding to do the final design. Okay. So now I'm really confused.

0:21:11Sorry. Well, what I'm trying to understand is we, if we decide that we want to fund 4. 7 million dollars and do the, do all the design. Does that delay 1041 review when you're saying no? Okay. Okay. And if we don't, if we do it in segments, I think I heard you were saying that we could still do the 1041 process for the entire. I mean, that's basically, that's a requirement of the 1041 is that we really need to show all of the impacts at once. Sure. And so we would not want to show them all over. Yeah. So then, okay. Well, I'm trying to understand. Whether in terms of being positioned to get construction money and get this project kicked off. Is there a benefit to have, uh, to, to having all of the segments designed and ready to go. Yeah. I mean, I think that this might go to what Commissioner Stolzman outlined.

0:22:16I think looking at the total costs of North Photos is just much higher. And so this segments are a higher cost and it's just more difficult to, like we, our analysis has been, it's going to be a lot harder to find funding for those segments. Um, and so we've kind of thought it might make more sense to focus on the highest crash corridor, um, the SS where he grant that we submitted would be from Broadway to Longhorn Road, which is like 67 percent of the crashes on the core of the fatalities on the quarter in the last five years. So, um, we've kind of been looking more just because it is so expensive. Are there like focus areas we can do to improve the safety without funding the whole thing? And so that's kind of why we've looked at segment one as a priority. Yeah.

0:23:05No, I understand why we were focusing on segment one. I'm trying to understand whether from what I, you're telling here saying, um, it doesn't sound like there's any benefit to getting to final design on all three segments. Um, at the front end. Can I say what the benefit is from my perspective? Yeah, please. So from my perspective, if we wanted to fund the project, we could then build the project. I mean, if we can't, if we're not going to pay for it or put any money toward it, then I understand like then we just have a project sitting on a shelf that we never build. But if we fund it, then it would be built and done. So, and your perspective, I think all along has been, let's, let's just. Yeah, it's getting more expensive every year. It's going to, by the time we build this, it's going to be 300 million. Okay. Understand. Okay.

0:23:57So those are, those are questions just about, you know, the options one, two, three. And then on the Northfoot Hills, but then on the bird. So. You're not, there aren't. I thought, I thought you were looking at segments on the bird. Yeah. And we do. Yeah. What I was going to say. Yeah. We have segments on the bird. I think at this point, because it is a lower cost project, we've kind of strategized that it makes sense to kind of advance it altogether. And then we apply for this segment from this grant and this segment from this grant and see what happens. Um, so I think the funding strategy that we've kind of perceived knowing that like, we don't, um, you know, if we don't have, if we have to pursue outside funding, that that would kind of be the strategy for that. Okay. Yeah.

0:24:51But we do have segments on that one. And I, I can pull those up if that would be helpful. No, I remember them. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Well, and what I'm wondering about on the bird is that, that the design, so there were the significant concerns about the habitat conservation area in, I think it's between 75th and 95th, is it? Yeah. Yeah. And I keep asking, cause I want to make sure this stays on the table. You know, what accommodation, what are we looking at in terms of, you know, varying, deviating from the right of way or where we're the trail is in the right of way in order to address those habitat concerns. And I'll just share that I was out on the North Teller Trail. Oh, last weekend maybe or one day last week after work. I don't remember when exactly, but it was sometime in the last 10 days. And, um, and there was a Northern Harrier up in the tree. And I mean, it's just amazing to be out there. Um, so many words, so much wildlife. So it just, it re - upped in my, you know, for me anyway, um, the fact that we, there was a decision to proceed with that right of way alignment. But then there was a commitment to continue to study those impacts and

0:26:17look at mitigation efforts. Yeah. So that's definitely part of what we're doing right now. So we've done some environmental data collection. And then, you know, as we align or do the initial alignment, we'll be looking at ways to avoid. All the environmental impacts. And then we're definitely going to be looking at mitigation opportunities. And minimization opportunities and all the ways to avoid those impacts. Yeah. But just to make sure, I mean, design is usually an engineering exercise. And is there a, uh, you know, a habitat, uh, evaluation and review as part of that process. Yeah. I mean, we, we, we have environmental consultants on board on the team. So they're, they're making recommendations. And then, you know, we will, we are anticipated, you know, we'll be doing the NEPA process, the 1041 process. So that'll be part of that review to make sure that we're meeting those, um, requirements. Okay. So direction. I mean, it's, I guess it's kind of hard for me to give preliminary direction at this point when this is going to be a 2027 budget. Item, right? I mean, correct. I think what would be helpful for us to hear today is, you know, Commissioner Appetite for, particularly if, if you are interested in funding more, we would need to be looking at different revenue sources for that. And that's a

0:27:44different exercise than coming at you with sort of what's been planned from, um, existing sales tax. Yeah. And I just don't have the big picture on, you know, I guess we've talked about all kinds of fun things we might want to do. And we have some fun balance available. And I would like to, I really want to consider this in context of various other competing needs. I mean, I guess what I'm leaning towards would be to go with option one. Let's, you know, and let's, um, just put that in the mix as we look at a total budget. Package and an option one on the bird as well. Option one on both of them. Let's, I mean, that would be the ideal. Right. And then we may have to pull back from that. If we have other competing needs for the same bucket of money and this, are they both eligible for funding out of the transportation sales tax? They are both. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

0:28:55And of course the lots of other things that folks want to see done with that money. Yeah. I think we're estimating we're still working on our budget requests for next year, but we're estimating that we would have about 1. 7 to 2 million dollars for these two projects available in the sales tax for 2027. 1. 7 to 2 million for both. Right. Okay. So we don't have, okay. Pardon me. But I mean, that comment was just from the sales tax. And that's assuming allocating the sales tax to other things. So like that's making a bunch of judgment decisions about what the sales tax is going to be spent on. Right. Thank you for adding your point of view to this. I'm just trying to get my questions answered. So, um, as to what that funding source provides. So, um, I think I understand that. And if you want to do another round here among the commissioners because people have more things to say. That's fine.

0:29:50Well, and I wasn't trying to cause trouble. We had said we were doing the work sessions as more conversational. So I thought that's what we were doing. Correct. And I'll just chime in on that specific piece to say, of course, your budget decision making will have in this fall. And that's when you will, um, have in front of you the different choices from different funding sources. Um, what I wanted to add into the conversation is just to say that there. Are, there are lots of things that you can fund out of lots of different places. And this is not the time and place to say where those would come from, but it is helpful for us to hear what I think I heard, at least from two commissioners so far is like, let's at least talk about how to do option one potentially even a higher funded option, um, that Commissioner Solsman was proposing. That's just helpful for us to hear so that we are bringing you information in your budget process that allows you lots of choices, um, it's not to say that anyone piece, um, is, is more important than another. I think the other thing that I want to reflect on right now is a couple of weeks ago, you had expressed an interest in looking at longer term capital planning. That's

0:31:15something that this whole team here could be working on and bringing back to not for 2027 because some of the projects are too far down the road, but certainly for, um, 2028. And if you're looking at a three or a five year capital plan, that would give you the sense of what staff is contemplating for those out years and something that you could discuss and give your direction on at that point as well. So that's another future. So the future budget decision for 2027 and then a future conversation that staff will be bringing back to you likely, um, I would say end of your first quarter, 2027, 4, 2028 and beyond. And with that, I think I'll take commissioner Livy's suggestion of let's do another round just to make sure that we, um, have fully captured your thoughts and that there's an opportunity for you to talk amongst yourselves about the different ideas and trade - offs that you have. Thank you. I may just jump in. Is that okay? Um, now that I've got to hear and finish reading and think about what you just presented to Stacy Thanks. Um, I would be interested and I appreciate that. Reminder, John, like, yes, we're not making budget decisions right now, but I think just for me to understand, um, and so maybe I should ask

0:32:34this first, looking at that slide, Stacey. What's the difference between concept level design and preliminary design. And final design. Yeah. So concept, I mean, everyone has different percentages, but generally conceptual is like maybe 10 to 15 percent preliminaries usually 30 percent. So the 60 percent design. And the reason I'm asking is made and it was like, we've already gone through this community engagement process and those types of things. I'm just trying to be cognizant of how far I would rather. So I'll just say this would rather see us go through as far of that design process with everything that's involved from the standpoint of, um, having people involved and knowing what's happening. And because it seems like otherwise the section here of that timeline that then could be, could maybe feel unsatisfying. To residents around the County, depending on where the project is. So I think what I'm trying to figure out and I was looking at these different options. And I'm not sure that it's totally there. So thanks for the. Yeah. And I'll just say on that 60 percent, I think what for Burt, like we decided to have an extra round of review. And so for North Fotels, we're not planning to do that. But just given everything that we've talked about with Burt, we decided it would be good to have

0:34:04like an interim between 30 percent. So that's what that. So I think for me, what I'm trying to kind of pull from each one of the options in this section. So if we start on the North Foothills to have the final design of segment one, the 1041 inephar process. And then something more than just preliminary of a design for the rest of it. So we know, um, and also what I heard you say was like, if we're ready, then when there is funding, then we can keep moving. Everything at the County is Hyperiority. Everybody has their one, you know, whatever the different need or project or interest is. And my hope is that with these, the way I'm looking at these projects is my hope is that folks are going to use these from a commuting standpoint. And then it's going to be safer for people to be traveling around the county. Um, so when I think about it from that perspective, um, and just safety from transportation. Then I'd like to say as to as much as we can, that's not going to put seven eye situation where they're having responses, but I just think like what can we get done? What can we commit to? So I feel like I'm looking for a little bit more. And I don't, and I don't

0:35:22know exactly what that means in those percentages, et cetera. Yeah. But I hope that's helpful just a little bit more than option one. On both. You know what I mean? Okay. Yeah, I think we would just need to, we would need to just do a little bit more work and looking at our schedule and talking with our consultant to determine that. So I, you know, we could definitely, um, talk and see if that's feasible. Okay. I think that would help me for the like future, um, budget conversations. And I just want to say I'm really disappointed that Burt's not here. I know Bird is over in the collaboration room because I saw the other day. But anyway, that's probably not the most important piece of this. I believe that, um, costume is, uh, across the street in the CPMP offices somewhere. So maybe for the next meeting. I may have watched a World Cup game over there last week. So I know where he's at.

0:36:12Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Lo Chamine. Other commissioners. I don't think I have anything else to add. Anything else. Okay. So, um, just to sum up what I'm hearing from all of you is, um, interesting further discussion of option one or something more. Um, I think I heard at least two of you talking about something more. Staff will take that guidance and bring back options for your consideration during the 2027 budget process. And then later on down the road, you can look for multi - year capital planning process coming your way in a future work session. Anything else, Stacey, that we need? I don't think so. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. I guess then one of the other questions was just to come back to just give another update on these on the regional trail and bike weight projects. I'd like to be invited to the ribbon cutting. Yes. Well, I'm, I think what I'm wondering is I don't know that I feel like I need to have another work session outside of what's going to be presented in the budget cycle. I'm looking it down.

0:37:18So like, I feel like this is helpful and to be able to look through it and hear a conversation together with the board to have an idea of what people are thinking is very helpful. I don't know that I need another work session on this. Okay. Great. That's helpful. Commissioner Lee. Yeah. I, I mean, I think when there are decision points that we get to, sure. I don't like to have you come back. And otherwise I think, you know, I don't, I don't need to haul all these people in here. You can send us a memo. But it is nice to see you all. Not saying I don't want to see you, but just, it's a lot of resources sitting out here. So yeah, just, you know, send us an update. And I think we can get those in the quarterly reports from CPMP and public works. So I think if we have given the direction you were looking for, this is the last agenda item for the commissioners today. And so we'll be adjourned.

0:38:16Thank you. Thank you.