Transcript

0:00:05All right, commissioners, are you ready? Yes, we are. And we are recording. When I see us. We're here for a meeting of the board of county commissioners in Boulder county. Today's Tuesday, October 28, 2025, and all three commissioners are present. We're at the third floor hearing room downtown Boulder at 1325 Pearl street, and I'm going to go ahead and call our meeting to order, which is number one on the agenda, and move us to number. Two, which is our business meeting and public hearing of the Boulder County Housing Authority. And then move us to number three, which is our business meeting. And then move us to number. Four, which is board of equalization consent items. So we are now sitting as the Boulder county board of equalization. Move approval for a second. I just wanted to check and make sure that. The. Is the other one actually yours? Because I think. That one is for this chair. Sorry about that move. Approval of four a.

0:01:08I'll still second it. Okay. I just want. To make sure everyone could hear. So we've got a motion. A second. All in favor? Aye, aye. Thank you. And then I'll move. Us to item five, which is commissioner's consent items we'll return to sit as. The board of county commissioners, and I just wanted to ask. Board. I had asked for some information. In regards to item five, what is now five b. And so I'd like to move that one to discussion, if we could, and move it to the later on in the agenda on the consent. Items. Okay, move approval of the consent agenda, with the exception of five b. Second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. So then, that will take us down to. What looks like. Page 341 of the packet. And we're at commissioner's discussion items item six a. Is community planning and permitting. And we have a call up of SPR 25.

0:02:1263, which is 72. 23 Marshall residents. Thank you. Good morning, commissioners. This is Sam walker with the community planning and permitting department. I was the reviewing planner for SPR 25. 63 7223 Marshall residents. So we issued a determination letter for the site point of view application on October 15 of this year. And on October 15 of. It was just the same day the commissioners requested that the application be called up, so I'm here requesting that the commissioners make a determination of whether or not a public hearing will be held for this application. Thank you, Sam. Thank you. And request that we would have a discussion around this and just have a number of questions that I would need to ask during a public hearing. And take public input as well. But quite a few questions.

0:03:00But one primary question around whether or not the use is an accessory. Use. So just sharing why I called it up. I have a number of questions that could be answered. In a public hearing or considered. Thank you. Well, I didn't have any concerns about it. I didn't see in the memo. Though I may have missed it, what the presumptive size maximum is for this property and. Whether. The structure as configured. Is within that. So the short answer is yes. It's within the presumptive size maximum. I don't. Remember the number off the top of my head. This application was reviewed according to. The more recent site point of view standard, so we no longer have the presumptive size maximum. But it was within the allowable size of square footage for the parcel. Okay, thanks. And I wondered Commissioner Stolzman. Whether you could ask your questions now. And then I don't decide whether you still want to call it up. I do want to call it up. I don't think it's appropriate to ask the questions in this forum that's. Not my understanding of the process.

0:04:10I think if I'm asking questions and making a decision. It needs to be duly noticed. So I think. It's either we're calling it up, noticing it, and I'm asking my questions and hearing that's been properly noticed, or we're not doing that. And it's just getting approved. I think those are both fine outcomes, but I don't think. It's proper process for me to ask the questions without the due process and notification. Thank you. And. So I'll just weigh in on the question of the call up. Thank you and thanks. Ham for being here. I'm happy to support a call up, which is what I'm. Hearing and appreciate you sharing, kind of just generally the reason why you had gone through that. Part of the process, which were allowed to review and have the date. And you noted that Sam so. I would move on. Item six a, that we do. Have a call up and have a hearing. I don't know if we have a date.

0:05:01Or if we can just give that right now. Of spr 25. 63, and it looks like we don't have a date, so there wouldn't be. A date notified or noticed right now. Second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposition? No. Okay. So then I wonder if. Thank you, Sam. Yeah, I wonder if. First item six b. If by chance we have. Someone. For what was originally on hair listed at five b, and it was in regards to one of the contracts. For community services. And if not, What I would suggest is if we just tabled this one to our next business meeting. Natalie Spring and commissioner's deputy. For the record, I do know that commissioner's office staff has been in communication with community services. We were anticipating. A representative to join us online. I see our clerk to the board coming in. So I just wanted to get an ETA. If we had a member available from community services. Matt. Yes. Okay.

0:06:18And commissioners, it sounds like they're logging into zoom right now, so if we could. Just wait on the questions until we have Monica joining us. That would be wonderful. Thank you. Commissioners. If it wouldn't be a burden, I'd be happy to move to our executive session items and then move back to item five b while we let staff log into the meeting, since it seems to be taking just a moment longer. Oh, great. Thanks, Monica. We are here for. What's noticed there on the screen is item five B, and it's been moved. To item six B for discussion. Thanks for joining us in regards to community services, community corrections, halfway housing contract amendment with core civic. And we don't have your audio yet. Good morning. Thank you. And if you could just introduce yourself, I'm happy to just share the questions. That I have that might be easier versus a brief presentation on the item. That would be very helpful. Marica. Neil. Finance and administration manager with community justice services. Great. Thank you. And so bored.

0:07:58Maybe I moved it to discussion, so maybe I'll just. Start with that piece. I had a couple of questions, and I apologize if someone from staff responded. This morning I was in a meeting from nine to 930. If I missed from my early emails today. The questions I had was in regards to what was shared. In there, in the contract. There was a few documents in there, but it didn't have what I was trying to understand. Was. The actual financial number that was being asked to complete the work. From the way I interpreted the memos. Work now till or up until June of 2026, which looked like the completion date. And trying to understand what the initial contract dollar amount was for. Summary of what, if any, other changes in the scope or amount have been made since the 2020, which looked like the beginning of that contract. So the. Changes to, and I would need to find the actual numbers, but. They change those to the contract amendment between the one that was most recently signed on September 9. And. This particular amendment. Is.

0:09:07I believe it is a total of about 8000. This is only for the facility payments. For. Each vendor, it's a different amount because. With itcs, the contract. Is through January 15, and with courts, divex through January 6. So the difference is only for the 15 days or six days. Only facility payments. The providers asked for us to reconsider. Giving them additional facility payments and month because we get two different facility payments. From the state. So again. The amount that changes is only. About 8000 I wouldn't to pull up. The numbers. And the scope of work. Generally it does not change. The only thing that is different in this amendment is we have attached. More detailed. Transition time. Details of how we transfer it from how we transfer services from the private. To the county. So it is really about the details of. What paperwork we are going to get from the vendors. And. With paperwork and, for example, how the clients will be transported.

0:11:03Thank you. So I think what I was trying to understand, and again, I don't have all of the previous potential changes of the contract since 2020. Originally in the packet, there was two different documents. It looked like they had to do with the contract. And so I was trying to understand. In the scope of work that looked like. A whole lot of information. We're not looking at the red line version, so maybe it is just a really small. Change of what had been previously approved. I just didn't have any of the background documents. To be able to reference. So what I'm hearing from you is that it's. Actually a very minor change in the scope of work. Is insignificant, but still requires up to the $8,000 of amendment. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you board for the time. Certainly. So we've got that listed now is item six B. Motion. Otherwise, I can make the motion move. Approval of six b second. All in favor?

0:12:02Aye. Thank you, Monica. And then the next item is confirmation of executive session. Topics Good morning, commissioner. Is Natalie Springert commissioner's deputy. I'm here to confirm that the executive session topics that were noticed at the October 21, 2025 regular business meeting of the board were discuss. Discussed as scheduled, and this is simply a note for the record, so I'm happy to move this to item eight, which will require a vote. I'm here to request authorization for. The board of county commissioners to go into executive session on Wednesday, October 29, 2025, at 01:00 p.m. with county attorney Ben Pearlman, pursuant to CRS 24 6402. Subsection four. B legal advice regarding the community planning and permitting dock at SU 23 0013, also SE 240 Zero five, which is the Riverside cabins lodge and boundary line adjustments for properties located at 16 190 16. Two. 16 194 and 16. 188 North St. Brain Drive. And I'd request a boat this morning. I move that we go into executive session for the purposes stated. Just a question. You said it. Was for legal advice. Yes. Second. All in favor?

0:13:28Aye. Thank you. And that'll take us to item number nine. And that is. Public hearing of the Boulder County Housing Authority. So now we'll be sitting. As the Boulder County Housing Authority board of directors, and it takes us to page 404 in the packet and we'll give staff just a moment to. Oh, look at that. The presentation is. Already up on the screen. A reminder, we do have public comment. I would like to. Ask board before I turn it over to our executive director, because there's a couple of topics that it sounds like we may be discussing. I wonder about having a public comment instead of at the beginning. Maybe in the middle or after we get some of the presentations done, in case there is anybody. That wanted to weigh in on the items versus. I should say on the items that we're discussing versus just coming to speak to the board, so I just wanted to offer that. May I offer an addition to what you're. Proposing. I think that's a great idea, but just in case. We don't typically have a lot of common at these, but just in case someone came.

0:14:31And was expecting to get to speak at the top of the hour since we typically did. If we could take comment now and then. Just take comment again. Just in case someone was tuning in and has to get back to work or their day. Yeah. That's great. I appreciate that. All right, so then with that, so maybe what we'll. Do is we'll do a public comment per your agenda at the beginning, and then we can check in and see if there's anybody else who's joined to provide. Public comment as well. And we'll be flexible both here in the room and also virtually. Today. And with that, then I'll turn over to Susannah Lopez Baker. Thank you. Commissioners. Susanna Lopez. Baker, Boulder County Housing Authority executive director. It is with pleasure we call this meeting to order today. Thank you for being here. And I was notified. We do have a member from the public that would like to speak so. I will get out of their way. And it looks like we have people online as well. Great. Thank you. And so for folks who are presenting today, we're here to hear items for the Boulder county housing authority. And I will just give it a quick virtual invitation. If anybody's on the phone, that number is 833-3568. Six, four. Or if they're trying to

0:15:51get on the phone, just a reminder for speakers. That are on the phone that you'll have to hit star nine to raise your hand. And then star six to unmute. And there is a timer up there on the screen for three minutes if you want to take a look at that. And a reminder just to state your name before you speak for the record. And I've got Bethany pagette first. And it doesn't look like Bethany is in the room. Megan. Sikaidos. Thank you. My name is Megan Cicaros, and I live at the Zenia housing it's. A critical housing unit. And so I really just came here. I noticed I only have three minutes. But I came here to be able to speak on the parameters and how they're. Affecting people. I think that housing is a basic. Standard and some of the federal parameters are affecting the people that are in these housing. And even though there's the ADA and Disabilities act that are in some of these things, and there's case managers and everything to help with transportation that some people are probably 20% of the population are still being affected and being made homeless. It does say that.

0:17:04It's a permanent supportive housing unit, and the things that are affecting it are things like. Some people have co occurring disorders, so they may have drug addictions. I believe that's their personal value, and trying to develop a rehabilitation program isn't going to work. That only works for 10% of the population, they're still going to have that as their value. So we need to be able to develop units that are appropriate for people who have. Drug addictions. And to be able to provide that as an option and decriminalize that one of the things that's affecting. That in particular is the fact that. It isn't being seen as a personal preference and their housing can be taken away or that it affects more things than just their body. So they start struggling between resources in their body.

0:17:44And all these other things, so they aren't able to maintain that. But when you provide the housing unit. That's part of the basis of getting to the point when they can start addressing their bodily needs. And then from there they can develop either moderation and start focusing on the health impacts and develop that in society, like they did with marijuana, or that they can be able to stop using because of health reasons. There's other reasons that people use spirituality and other things and that would be their own prerogative if they chose to do that. Regarding the other reasons. Some of the things are interactions with staff anger. I think there's a lot of pruning going on using the mental health system and not seeing the full range of human expression. I happen to be a Hispanic American. Individual. I'm Chicana. I'm lighter skinned, but my grandfather was Hispanic, and he was the one who raised me. And so some of these things that are part of our culture, such as fighting, are being prone to society for the purposes of what people consider safety. In my culture, we're taught that our bodies can handle it and that they aren't being impacted. And I think that that really needs to be addressed because it's been being.

0:18:49Pruned out through the schools, pruned out through mental health and through other things. And I think if we teach that our bodies are strong and start teaching those physical skills as social skills because we aren't just doing them for ourselves or to protect ourselves. Somebody else. Is going through something and. They're going to have that. So these interactions with the staff become verbal altercations. They can be verbal or they can be physical altercations with other people, and people are getting their relationships severed because of that, because of parameters that are approximately. You have three chances for this, and it becomes about chances and not the relationships with the people. That are involved. And I think that. So even if it isn't the people that are in there and I'm not saying that we shouldn't have safety. Oh, there goes my time. Thank you. Thanks for presenting. And it doesn't look like we have anybody else in the room, so. I'm going to move us to our virtual public comment. Thank you. And first up is Rebecca Fornwalt.

0:20:02We can't hear you. Not yet. How about now? Yes. There we go. Thank you. Okay. Sorry about that. Yes. Hello. You can start my timer. Hi, my name is Rebecca Fornwald. I just moved. To the area with my wife, and we live in the unincorporated part of Boulder County. I apologize. In advance. If this is not the place I'm supposed to be, the government is very confusing, and I'm trying to find the right location. We are curious to know about the laws around accessory dwellings in the unincorporated part of Boulder county. Because I've been looking at HB 20 411 52, and in our neighborhood, we are on city water, and we have our own septic systems, and we have still no ability to build accessory dwellings, even though most of us have over an acre.

0:20:50Of land. And I've been talking with a lot of my neighbors, many of whom are elderly in this neighborhood and. They are frustrated about the fact that their children could not move in, their grandchildren could not move. In, which could be very helpful for some of the elderly people. There are some folks with younger kids that they anticipate their children will have a hard time once they get out of high school, finding a place to live, having accessory dwellings can allow that kind of autonomy all around. Which I think is a value of Colorado in general, considering that this bill was. Passed. It is just a little frustrating that we are in a non census area, so we don't. Have the population quote unquote required. So I've been told that Boulder county is thinking about potentially allowing the unincorporated parts to accommodate accessory dwellings, and for that reason, I am here making a plea for that to be considered in the future, because I do think that. There are a lot of people specifically in our neighborhood, which probably has about 110 houses in it.

0:21:45And I think that that would probably be something very useful for many people here. So that is pretty much my plea. You can end my time, but I really appreciate you listening. Thanks, Rebecca. And. If you can hold on for a second. I've asked staff to just reach out. We have a meeting countywide this Friday if you're interested in participating. Perfect. There's a virtual option just in regards to. Larger conversations on backyard cottages and accessory dwelling units. Sure. Thank you. And we'll go. Sorry about the sun. Oh, no. Thank you for participating. Next is Lynn Siegel. Yeah. I really liked Megan's testimony. I wish I could have given her my time. Just a reminder to state your name for the record. Lynn Siegel. Thank you. I don't know what kind of power you have within the county, but what we need. In this country. Is a graduated income tax. That's much, much higher for the much, much higher income bracket. This is just with the Trump administration. It's just unacceptable. Living standards. From this point on. No snap, no health insurance, no housing. That's why I'm here. Housing does come first. But housing comes last.

0:23:23When we get so many unhoused and. They are so much in despair. They're taking medications and they're taking drugs and they become addicted, and then. It's a hugely expensive thing to get them into housing again because they'll just trash it. And it's not their fault from the start. For most of this stuff, these are small problems, but. They've been accelerated excessively because of this Trump administration and the Democrats and the Republicans. For the preceding decades. But now it's gotten really bad. And we need something that can actually. Change things. And that is. A graduated income tax. That's really extreme on the high end. And the other thing is. The developers. The developers need to pay their share. They're not. And what we also need. What we really fundamentally need is a quantification. Of what each human uses. In police, in firefighting, in social services. And utilities. In people working at the grocery store. So the jobs, housing balance. Is balanced not more and more imbalanced by this exceeding growth from low income housing tax. Credits pushed by the Trump administration like heroin. On our communities.

0:25:11On Boulder. Boulder planning board could never turn down litech funds for element or for. Another housing project. Bluebird is a disaster. People are going there all the time to fight crime in that place. And what we need is to stop crime from the root, and that's with housing. And that's what. Time is up. I just want to check with stuff and see if there's anybody else waiting. Virtually. I don't see anybody listed, but I want to make sure there's nobody. On their phone that I'm not seeing. Hi. Chair lo tremene. This is Brianna Barber, commissioner's office staff at this time. We don't have anyone else in the virtual room waiting to give public comment. Thanks for checking. Thank you. We'll go ahead and close public comment then in regards to the boulder. County housing authority for that session this morning. Thank you. Next slide, Kelly.

0:26:12We're going to get started with my updates. We also will be hearing from staff on capital improvements, voucher operations, finance, and then, of course, any matters from the board. So I'll get started with my updates. Federal updates. I know everybody's really curious. About that. It's definitely the question of the hour, being that some benefits are going to be cut into this week. What we are being told still from HUD messaging through our MTW collaborative is that hat payments are expected November 1, which is. Normal for the housing authority. And also we are still expecting December 1. We did hear that Hud has cut some funding, but none of that funding impacts the housing authority. They are largely public housing direct operation funds, which we don't have public housing still concerning nonetheless, there are a lot of jurisdictions that do. And then, of course, we are just hopeful that our hat payments will indeed come through.

0:27:13Hudson. Obviously pretty quiet, very skeleton staff. But enough staff that will release payment this week. Any questions on federal updates? No, thank you. Great. I did want to mention that I was able to attend the national Narrow conference in Phoenix last month as well as housing Colorado a few weeks ago. And the real nexus for me there in learning is the intersection of workforce and housing. So I do intend to bring some of those conversations to our housing lead. There's just some really innovative things happening nationwide, and I think that we can definitely be more collaborative here in Boulder county. So really excited to kind of explore that. Those were my largest. Takeaways. At Housing Colorado, which is much more local. It was really great to hear from state staff from the Dola executive director Maria de Cambra, just on state of the state, essentially on housing. Got to meet the new DOH director, which is exciting as well, and then a lot of emphasis and focus on modular building, as you know. It's the governor's. I don't know, like. Yeah, priority. Thank you. So exciting. We sat in on several sessions on that and several of the pro fighters we've already toured their sites, but. We've also met some new providers and again, bringing that to the housing lead to schedule. Some time to

0:28:37see how that can be. Maybe put into BCHA portfolio, especially in our smaller towns. I think that quick turnaround is very attractive to our development team. Let's see. Disposition. So we have finally sold the two properties in Lafayette to the city of Boulder. Really excited about that because they will enter the regional housing partnership home ownership compliance program. That was previously funded by ARPA dollars through Boulder county. So that program continues with the city of Boulder, and they are expanding regionally, so this is their first purchase outside of the city. Of Boulder, and that has happened in the city of Lafayette. Great partnership with affordable and attainable housing tax dollars, so those sales are complete. And that has allowed us, we're on the next slide, kelly. That has allowed us to pay off bond 13, which is also very exciting for BCha. So that does increase. Our no debt portfolio by 85 units. We still have one home on the market in long mods. It is a duplex property. And it's been on the market for some time. So we're hopeful that that sells soon.

0:29:53It is our last. In our first round of disposition to the last home left. The only future disposition we currently have is 14. Three, Emery also in Longmont. And that will likely go to market in February of 2026. And then finally, the spoke on Kaufman parking garage. The Longmont Downtown Authority is to acquire the arlet parking spaces. So they had a large portion of parking spaces. I think that agreement happened before Covid and since Arlette has realized maybe they don't. Need that many. And so they are going to sell off, which is great. Others can use them. Any questions? Yes, thank you. Yeah. Thanks, Susanna. The two that the city of Boulder required. Excuse me. Do you know what funds they're using? To do the rehab on those. I know they're used aht to buy them, but. Do you know what funds they're using to renovate them? Yeah. So they actually use a portion of AHD to buy one of the homes and then are also using ah $2 to do rehab. The other home was actually purchased by using their Arbo funding that would previously awarded to them. Okay, thanks. They also have a revolving fund, so they probably are pulling some extra dollars out of that. From the proceeds of. Other ones in this program. Great. Thanks. All right, next slide. I did

0:31:26want to just give a quick development update. We are seeing very busy. So for phase one, our Chaffa final application was submitted for our senior property, one a we. Are also currently working on submitting documentation for our second capital contribution for one a and one b. And also our third capital contribution for one a. So a lot of finance work being done. On phase one and. We also secured permits last week to finish the road work that needed to be repaired so that is now in motion, and we expect construction to begin next week. In regards to phase two, we have a new wall of a corner team. We have awarded Norris Design for landscape craft, civil first, civil engineering and Kephart as our architect. And we have our first kickoff meeting today, so we have got some tight deadlines coming. Up. We have loi do this week. First round of applications due December 1.

0:32:33And all in preparation for February chaff application, so staying very busy on that one. And phase three for the new Willoughby Corner team was awarded MMB Construction services for the design. Build. And that one is a couple of weeks behind our phase two, but. Essentially following very same timelines. And then finally. Because of that backlog on cash flow, we are going to do the homeownership. At the same time as will be. So the rural design was awarded. A separate design build was awarded to Kestrel during the same RFP process as Willow B corner. And then finally, I just wanted to give a very quick update on leasing. We're trickling in those last units. We are down to two vacant units at Willby Corner, so our final two. I know the team is very excited and also would like to have zero units available. So that was their response. They're like, it's so hard, these last two, but very proud of them. Great updates. Thank you.

0:33:40And then I did want to talk about our staffing analysis for staff reduction. We are still working very closely with HR. Very excited to report that we've got our first round of comments back from legal. So that's moving along. We don't have enough information to share. Publicly yet, as nothing has been approved. But all of our information is in and we're working as quickly as possible to get those comments back to legal. Thank you. And then we did have some staffing updates. Very excited to report that Michelle Alexander has been named the new deputy director of housing. You'll hear from her later on. Some capital updates. And then also excited to note that. Sonar. Hinton has been promoted to a business analyst. She's currently. The data analyst for homelessness systems work, and so this expands her role to encompass some of the housing authority work as well, so we're really excited about that, especially as we're leaning into Yardy. She'll be a liaison for us on the housing authority side. We have a question. I have a question. Yeah. Thank you. So with Sonora being.

0:34:51Looks like she's working in both the housing department and BCHA. And they're really separate entities. With separate funding and separate finances, separate budget, everything. How are you allocating her salary and her time between the two entities? Yeah, so the salary is split. She is on a grant award, so we actually received permission from. The grant to cover her salary through, we believe, August, September of next year. And at that point, she will shift to fully funded by BCha. And then at that point, Will she be exclusively working for BCHA? Correct. Unless something changes in the interim, we won't. Have a funding source for her on the housing department side. So we anticipate for now BCHA can absorb that last quarter of next year. And, of course, we're still looking for funds to continue to have some housing data, okay? Thank you. Any other questions? Next slide. Thank you. Just want to welcome additional staff. Just congratulations to them both. Thank you. Appreciate that. Also just wanted to again highlight some additional staff, resident services staff.

0:36:08As an FSS staff. FSS staff is actually BCHA staff. Resident services is not auto but they work so closely with our residents, we wanted to show who they are. Essentially, our mixed age staff has nearly doubled to meet the needs of our voucher holders regionally and as well as BCHA properties with Willoughby corner. Being added. We definitely need it. More staff. And then we also have two new maintenance staff who've recently joined our team, so been nice getting to know new staff. Great. Thank you. And I will turn it over to Michelle for capital improvement updates. Morning, commissioners, Michelle Alexander, deputy director of the housing team. And first, I would just like to recognize that I'm really excited to lean into this new position and continue to work with the dedicated team that provides affordable housing and balance our. Operational operations. But I will update on maintenance for now with sweaterwater here. With sweater weather here. The team has developed their snow plan. Boulder county housing staff will be removing snow in Netherland and Lions, most of Longmont, and we have contractors in Lewisville and Lafayette. This enables us to actually pivot if we have an emergency during the big winter months. For the contracts team. They continue to process. All of our contracts to make sure that we're in compliance and moving the

0:37:40work forward. Especially at Willoughby, with all the contracts that are coming at us right now. Capital improvements. Some of my favorite things to talk about. The first one up is Wedgewood in Longmont, Colorado, where we have 20 units, and at this property, we've had sighting electrical. Panels, dual fuel heaters, heat pump, water heaters, triple pane windows. AC, plumbing upgrades and hardy siding. So it's really exciting to see this one come through. If you're in long mat pass by, you can't miss it. We chose a very great color. I like the color. It's on debate. I don't know what's going on with this microphone. It just keeps moving. Keeps moving. Apologies. It may say, it may not. And our next property up. For capital improvements this year is lilac, where we did a lot of the same work. We did. Sighting dual fuel water heaters. I'm going to blame this on Susannah for moving at first.

0:38:44Sorry about that. So we have twelve units. Two bedrooms, one bath. 811 here. We did siding, electrical panels, dual fuel heaters. Thank you. Does not want to stay. Thank you. I'm not going to touch it again. Yes. And zero escaping. So we're really excited to see how the zero escaping at this property affects our operational capacity for the maintenance team this year, so we will have very limited snow. Removal and little watering and landscape maintenance on this property. We will bring forward the remaining four properties. In the next month, so you can see the exciting upgrades at the rest of the properties. Any questions about capital improvements or anything else I can answer. First of all, congratulations. Thank you. And I don't have any questions. That looks like great update. Thank you. Thank you. Next, I'd like to welcome Kelly Keefe up. Good morning, commissioners.

0:39:55I'm Kelly Keefe, the housing choice voucher program manager, and I was just going to give a couple updates. Like Susanna said, the HUD payments are on track. We actually received our funding notices last week of the obligated funds for the rest of November, which was 695,000. And then we also received our. Obligation notice for December, which was 1.39 2 million. So we feel confident that we're going to be able to draw down those funds. Per Huds shut down contingency plan. I have it listed up there. We have access. To all of the systems that we need, and we've been regularly able to log in. And do the work that we need to do for recertifying benefits for our housing clients. And drawing down funds from the system. So we anticipate that we are going to be fine. To be able to do that for November hat payments and December hat payments. The items that we can still request from HUD, like Susannah, have said they've been quiet, but. We can still request. Funds if we have reserves that we need to tap into. If we are insufficient on funds, we can still reach out to them and request additional funds or apply for that. BCHA is not in a position where we are concerned about that at all. We have been heavily monitoring our utilization

0:41:17this year in order to stay out of shortfall. And to make sure that we did not need to tap into funds from HUD for that. And also if. There's any immediate issues that pop up that are related to the threat and safety of residents we can still contact. HUD staff, the limited HUD staff that is around to address those. Next slide, please. So here's a little kind of snapshot. This comes from the two year tool that we use with HUd to monitor our spending in the voucher program and kind of do some forecasting for the end of the year, so. The months that you see highlighted in yellow. That's us forecasting. As if everything stays the status quo. We've had an extraordinary amount of moves. Despite everything that's been going on, people are still actively using their voucher and moving. So from the month of September through October, we have already processed 32 moves. And I kind of did a snapshot of where those are.

0:42:19The majority is in Longmont. And Lafayette. But then we've got 16 additional moves in process. And so for the rest of the year. You can see that I'm anticipating that we're going to close out with unit. Months at 889 for November and December. Our budget authority allows us to be at a total of 11,308, and we're anticipating 10,507. Approximately using about 15 million of our 16 million budget authority. So that would put us with some reserves. Which is acceptable and fine and also where we want it to be, because we did not want to be having to ask for additional funds from HUD. So going into 2026, what this will mean is we can look at. Overall. Potentially increasing the program. As far as just issuing vouchers that have not been utilized. We do have several special purpose vouchers that we've kind of been holding on. We also have the ability. To absorb some of the ports that we're billing for, and we do still have some. People from the lottery that we had drawn, but we had not actually. Contacted yet to do some eligibility, so that is something. We're in the middle of some staffing turnover in the voucher program as well. We're hiring for three new voucher specialists who are hopefully starting next month. And so once we get them trained and

0:43:50on board, this will help that we can look at. Releasing some vouchers early on in the year so that we can increase our unit months. Into next year. Any questions on this slide before? Or any of that information. Thank you. I do have a question, and it's a little bit of curiosity. It might be something we talk about. Separately. But. The diagram that you've got on there in regards to the moves. Are those moves where people are moving into those areas or moving people are moving out of. Those are where people moved into. So. I hadn't tracked. Some of these are some new voucher holders that just got issued, like their vash vouchers. Or their family unification vouchers, or even the foster youth initiative, some of them are current voucher holders who may be moving from one area to another. Or staying in the same area. Thank you. That was my assumption, as it was the move in. And so I think the curiosity is really just to have an understanding about what's happening in the region. If there is data that would show us.

0:45:00X percent of our voucher holder moving from Boulder into Lafayette as an example. Not an assignment immediately, but I just think it might help us have an idea of what's. Happening regionally when we talk about our vouchers and are able to share with our regional partners. The support that we're providing for the full region versus. Just one city or one town. Sure. If it would be helpful. What I could do too. Next. Time is show all of the move outs. And then also the move ins, so you can see who's moving out of what city. And who's moving in. Is there another commissioner, board member that would be interested in that? Information. Great. Okay. Thank you. I don't want to give you unilateral direction. But for me it would be really helpful as the housing lead in some of our regional conversations. Thank you. Sure.

0:45:47Commissioner Levy has a question. Yeah, I did have a question. Thanks, Kelly. The number of moves actually prompted me to wonder whether. Our voucher holders are experiencing any difficulty in actually finding a unit that is available to rent. At the FMR that's established. So currently, our payment standards that'll be on the next slide, too, but our payment standards. Are set. We've kept the same payment standards since 2024, which had been higher than the 2025 fmrs, and they're going to be higher than the 2026 fmrs. So our voucher holders have not had any trouble finding units that fit within the voucher amount. Where we've been seeing people have issues is on a personal level, just based on. Their landlord references or. Their potential criminal is what we've run across with some of our voucher holders. Their ability to pay their deposits. Can also affect them. But we have been fortunate enough that we still have deposit funds, so we've been assisting a lot of our voucher holders with their security deposits, and then in some of our voucher programs. I had applied for additional funding early on in the year that also would cover things like.

0:47:14Application fees and arrears to past landlords if it was preventing them from leasing up and so we have utilized those funds to help. Ensure that people are able to keep their voucher and make a move. Great. Thanks. So on this slide, this will be coming to you all as a resolution to approve. But it's the adopting of the 2026 payment standards, so. We have seen the so in 2025, the fair markets went down, but we opted to keep. Our payment standards, the same that we had set in 2024. 2026. They're going back up, but. They're not going up higher than the 2024 fair market rents. What we are required to do within the voucher program is set our payment standards between 90% to 110% of the fair market rents and up to 120% for Vash and so what we have to look at is. Is that reasonable? What are we seeing as far as trends go with our landlords and rent? Increases, and we're also having to factor in the utility costs when we're looking at this because the payment standard must also include the total calculation for utilities as well. We try to work with the two other housing authorities, Longmont and Boulder Housing partners, just to ensure that our voucher holders are not.

0:48:41Competing against each other, even though that there's legislation that prohibits landlords from refusing a voucher or only taking a voucher from one agency or another. We try and just make it easier. Longmont has been off alignment with us for a while. Just because. Of their own budgetary issues. And so for 2026, they are going to propose it's. An increase on their side, but they are proposing to adopt 100% of the 2026. Fair market rents as their payment standards. Boulder housing partners and BCHA have had the same payment standard for a while. Which is set at 100% of the 2024 fair market rents. And that is what we were proposing to keep into 2026, so it's an average of 102% to 105%. Over the fair market rents. And you can see the breakdown. There is anywhere from $32 to. $155 over but we believe, just based on our analysis and. What the program can afford. That is what we should be adopting. For the vash program.

0:49:53We made this change. I believe it was in 2024 to increase specific for vash holders. Up to 120% of the HUD fmrs because they are often a very difficult population. To house, and that really has helped. For that population. So I am proposing to continue that into 2026. So. That will be an increase on the vash as well. I'm proposing to keep 120% of the 2026 for Vash and then keep the payment standards where they're at into 2026. One of the reasons why we are not proposing to lower them because. When you're in the voucher program, whenever you lower the payment standards, it really doesn't help with any budget savings because for current voucher holders, unless they are actually moving you have to give them a two year notice about the payment standards going down.

0:50:53And so by the time two years comes up, you have likely already changed your fmrs. Unless they continue to keep going down, you've probably already changed them again. It only affects the people that are brand new coming into the program or anybody that's moving. And we're not in a position where we are concerned about our budget authority, and so that is another reason we are not opting to lower the current payment standards. Did you have any questions about any of that information? Thank you. I did have one question on just looking at this chart. I guess it's the. Third section. Where it says proposed 2026 payment standards. And I heard you talking about Longma and Boulder. Just to understand why they're housing authorities are doing so. Thank you for that. This one. Is the proposed for what Boulder County Housing Authority is doing? Correct. And then the percent of 2026 fair market rents. That's also US Boulder County Housing Authority. Okay. I just want to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly. I heard you say the recommendation. I remember this conversation from several years ago in regards to that. Landing on the percentage. And I heard you say that we'd be between 102% and 105% over fair. Market rates. Can you just help me understand?

0:52:15Why it wouldn't just be 100% across the board. For example. Four bedrooms because it looks like there's a different percentage for each one of those. Yes. That just happened based on us not making any changes over the past couple of years when we set them in 2024. We set them at exactly 100% of the 2024 fmrs. And then in 2025, we opted to keep them the same, even though everything was decreasing and. So that's where the percentages started getting a little. Wonky just based on how they decreased them. And that's where we're sitting at right now, too, is when you're comparing what we have adopted versus what the FMRs are set. It's a different percentage for each bedroom size. Okay. And that's just how the numbers end up calculating out versus. Essentially saying this exact percent for each one. Okay. Yes, that's helpful. Thank you.

0:53:12Okay. It doesn't look like there's any other questions. Okay, that was the end. Of my updates. Thank you. Good morning, commissioner. Sean doherty finance director, bcha. And just briefly, I've included kind of a snippet. Of the budget that we presented last month just to kind of keep driving the point home that we are budgeting 26. Pretty much to a break even position after the base budget subsidy from the general fund. Really making that a priority. Having BCHA operations sustain themselves so that we're not looking for additional subsidy from the general fund. So. That's been. A long, involved process and. I'm really glad where we wound up working with everyone to get to this point. A couple of things that I just want to mention that. Are very live, and especially this first bullet point about this enterprise management software. Yardy. We've actually, contracts are all approved. We've had kind of like a soft kickoff.

0:54:29Meeting where you have an official kickoff beating, I think, at the end of this week. We have also engaged a third party consultant to help us with that process. It makes a huge difference. And that's going to have, just in our initial conversations, that's going to. Have. A material impact on. Not just the efficiency of the organization, really, in every level. I mean, with an accounting and finance lens specifically. It's going to make a big difference in terms of we've got very outdated software. That's not very modernized. And this will help with a lot of kind of paperless flows and reporting and controls. And especially reporting getting the type of data that is very meaningful to us and probably meaningful to you much easier. For those who take the time each month and look at those detailed reports that Kelly puts together. That's a highly manual process that's handled with an outdating accounting system, exports.

0:55:33Into excel. Lots of manipulation that has to happen. And so a good deal of that will be automated, along with lots of other accounting finance processes. But the other departments as well. Property management, voucher management, maintenance, inventory, fixed assets. It's an expensive system, and it's probably well worth it, and so I'll be excited to kind of report on that progress. Really about over the next nine months. It's a pretty complex procedure, as you might imagine. We're continuing at this point. As Susanna touched on looking at the staffing restructures and it looks like we're getting close to that. We can finally nail that down. And communicate with our staff. The rental rates you've seen that we've put together. A memo and a memo summary about what we're thinking, about what the portfolio looks like. With increases in rents in various bedroom sizes and amis and populations.

0:56:32And the budget summary. Is specific to those units over which we have discretion. It's a small handful, 300 plus. Units out of our 1100 units. But anyway, I'd be happy to take any questions at this point. Thank you. Doesn't look like there's any questions. Excuse me. Well. I did have just some additional questions about the rent and the 30% of income. I don't know if that's for you, Sean, or for Susanna. I'll give it. My best shot. Yeah, and I appreciate the follow up information. And Chaffa's calculations versus Hud versus us. So one of the concerns that I had expressed in our previous meeting was. How much? This would impose a rent burden on our residents. And in the follow up email. You said that it would keep housing costs at 30% of tenants income.

0:57:41Because the formulas are based on AMI. I think I missed a beat there. On why that necessarily means it's only 30% of their income. I think the materials that you provided were based on Amis, which. Are general numbers. And we don't know. Well, maybe we do. Know. How much income our residents actually have. They may be in 50% AMR unit, but they may only actually have 30 or 40%. Of AmI income or do we always exactly match their income? To the ami of the unit. I would say we do bifurcate every unit in our portfolio while 1100 on a per. Unit AMI, which. For the majority of them get recertified every year for BCHA owned units they get certified at the beginning, but not yearly after that. And the point about. See the chaffer runs schedule, which is basically the chaff. Rent litech run schedule that they publish each year. The premise going into it is the appropriate rent such that no household is paying more than 30% of their income towards their housing burden.

0:59:14So that's the premise of the whole table. And so. That's where. Then, when the bedroom comes in at the Ami levels. Come in. All of that has the background that those rents should represent no more than 30% housing burden. Based on these Ami levels. Does that make sense? No. Now. I'm not following you. Okay, let me. Try to give an example because I was trying to think this out in my mind. Let's say Boulder county. And I'm going to make this up as you can. See in a second. Two bedroom units, $1,000 is the market rent in Boulder county. So that's where they start. And they say, okay, well, people shouldn't pay more. Than 30% of their income for their rent. They shouldn't pay more than for the. Housing. They shouldn't pay more than $3,300.

1:00:09That's for someone making 100% ami, right? So if someone, let's say someone's. Only making 50% ami. Then at that point, 30% of their $500 would be something on a calculator. 100 and something dollars. That's what that rent should be for that person. And so that's what I mean. Like, what's baked into the equation at the very outset, which is true across affordability. Metrics for anyone establishing rates is if the assumption, at least here, the United States, is that people should not be paying more than 30% of their income towards their housing burden. That's the premise on which you back into what the appropriate rent rates are going to be. And I know that. You probably don't get that yet. I don't know what my problem is, but, no, it's not working for me. I think I'm coming out from a different angle. With the increase that's proposed. Do we have any evidence? That our residents income rose by a commensurate amount, such that if it was 30% of their income last year. That it's still 30% of their income. Well. Outside. Of annual certifications that we have to do for the majority of our properties.

1:01:41The exercise has to be based on some sort of standard without going to everyone every year and saying, how much do you make? Let me base your income on that. You got a couple of things going on. In other words, There's this, I guess, element of kind of trust in the chaffer rates in their process. Okay, this rent schedule at these various bedroom and AMI levels. The premise is that those rates represent somebody not paying more than 30% of their income for housing. So at some point, we just kind of accept the standard and compare ourselves to that standard. Now it really comes down to like, yes, I'm showing every individual case. It could go either way. There's going to be some variance for every single person in every single unit. But that's not an exercise we take on. We kind of trust the standardized data that's presented to ourselves and compare ourselves to that.

1:02:39And really across the board. In that summary, memorial kind of makes this point across the board. Bcha primarily is not charging 100%. Of the chaffer rate schedule. That assumes these rents are no more than 30% of a housing burden. So across the board, the BCHA portfolio, on average, based on standardized data, says that our residents are not paying more than 30% of their income towards their housing burden. Well. What I'm understanding from what you said is that. There are assumptions here that Chaffa is making based on Amis. And it's a generalization across the population. Of whatever the area is that's included in Ami. I think it's just by county, I believe. But that we don't actually know whether this rent increase will impose a rent burden on our residents. Because it's all based on assumptions, correct? I think that's fair to say? We don't actually know, especially in those units. That people are only recertifying when they first move in. But I think a couple of concerns. And why staff. Is proposing or recommending that we do this increase is we know that our operation costs are increasing. And so we need to be able to cover that. And I think the other thing to remember. You may remember this. When we were closing on our development with Willoughby one, our investors were highly concerned

1:04:17that we did not stay on a schedule of rent increases, and I just want to remind the board next year we will be looking for new. Investments for Willoughby two, so. It is a little bit concerning for me to think through on the development side that if we don't do a rent increase that could potentially create an issue for us in another area. With the housing authority. Yeah, and I appreciate that. I'm really mostly focusing on the non litech properties, the ones where we receive the rent and control the rent rate. So. Yeah, I mean, I'm still concerned about this. Your memo, your email. Said that for the bcha properties. It's going to yield, like, $75,000. For the whole year. So. It's not to me. Like a make or break in our budget, and you've reduced. Your ftes. You're in the process of doing that.

1:05:14And we're not reducing the general fund subsidy, which was. There to support the Fte that you had. So. You've got the same amount of subsidy coming from the county. You've got fewer. Fte I appreciate that work. I appreciate all the work that you've done here. I know. This has been a whole lot. And thank you for all the follow up. I just continue to be concerned. That. The whole premise. That. Even that Ami is like for a four person household that you have a higher AMi. Like, why? It may just be a single earner with three kids, they don't necessarily have higher. Income. Just because they've got three kids. So I just think the whole premise of this thing. Is not well founded. I understand you're working within this system. These are the metrics that you have. But. I just continue to be concerned. Thank you. Any other questions? I think for me, I just want to. Just in regards to the remedies, you all have done a lot of work, and I saw maybe it was in one of the emails, not the packet here, just which I think was important, a reminder in regards to a few years that BCHJ didn't raise rents, and that was in response to Covid. I believe we're going to know more. In the next few months about

1:06:51really what impacts are. I think for me would I be interested in is. I heard. The reasoning from an investment standpoint or investor standpoint. That we need to be really careful about that piece of the finance. I think for me, what I'll be interested in is if. There is. How might we work within the system if we believe that housing, and I think your entire housing, team believes that housing. Is the key. To all of the other social determinants of health issues. And so how might we work within the system? To address and try and. Maintain folks in stable and dignified housing that BCHA has been working so hard to do. And create and maintain. When we think about the 2027 budget process, if there's a different asset we need to be doing to the board of county commissioners, as an example, to be able to, depending on where we are. In several months from now. I hear the recommendation and understand I share your frustration with the system and the way that I get the difference between difference between the zero bedrooms and four bedrooms, and it doesn't necessarily mean you have an additional income earner or et cetera. So I'm really just interested in when could we, and I'm happy as the lead on housing to have some of those conversations with BCHA

1:08:21to really think through how might we come up with a different result. To maintain folks in the housing that we're working so hard too. How do we make the entire system at BCHA work together? So just want to offer that and ensure that I do have some concerns around just the housing cost and the rent costs, but also acknowledge that. You're pushing really hard to try and get a budget on time. For BCHa this year and appreciate that as well. Thank you. Thank you. I'm hoping commissioners that I can ask if there's any direction to. Not proceed with our increases because. We have strict timelines with noticing residents, and so. If staff intention is to proceed. With the increases unless I hear direction from the board to not. Thanks for chairing. I'm not hearing any.

1:09:13Asks to do something different. With the rent scheduling at this time. I'm just hearing some concerns. Great. Thank you for clarifying that. Thank you. Thank you. I'll turn it over to Kelly for some KPI steps. Hello. Kelly stapleton, finance manager, bcha. We are looking at financials from August. Susan had mentioned earlier that. We have one unit left in our disposition to move out of the 2013 bond group. So in case you are wondering why you're still seeing the 2013 bond group. We're kind of two months behind here. So probably the November financials will reflect. Just the 2013. Group. And probably just a new one that has no debt, but no debt doesn't. Have a debt service coverage ratio component to it, so you'll probably just see it. In. The below charts. At any rate, I just wanted to notice. So the 2013 bond group.

1:10:26Does have a low dcr, but. We're not concerned about that as it's going away. Everybody else is in great. Shape, including Tungsten village and Kaufman place. So that's great to see that moving into your end. Kaufman place. We have been watching, and I will note that. It's occupancy has come up this past month, so I think they are. Working. Positively to fill those units. And I think the construction is done over there as well. So hopefully. That will alleviate some of that issue that was going on there. There really wasn't much else to highlight in terms of the KPIs. If there was any specific questions? I'm open. Thank you, deputy. Deputy for the record, I just wanted to note that Commissioner Stiltsman has now left the meeting so that we can timestamp that in a minute. Thank you. No question. Thank you. Thank you.

1:11:34Our final item is matters from the board. Can we show me the. I have no matters. It looks like you're turning with a big question there for a second. I've answered or answered. You all answered? I had some questions. Already throughout the presentation. I just want to appreciate all of the work, just to hear how close we are to Willowy Corner and the current phase as far as occupancies. Says a lot about the work that you all are doing. So I appreciate that. I do want to acknowledge as well, just follow up. Continued follow up from your team, Susanna, in regards to some of the questions that folks have had in regards to their experience renting and getting questions answered and things like that. So I just really appreciate all of your team for doing that. And I want to acknowledge again. That the fact that you all are working on and heard. Sean. Say?

1:12:34Just trying to reiterate that the budget is in process and you're working. Really hard to get that done. In a way that the previous BCHA team just was struggling to manage from a time standpoint. And so I just want to appreciate that work. Thank you. And I did forget to know that we do have a work session scheduled for November 10 and that our board meetings for both November and December have been combined. So that's just a december meeting now. And that's where we will present our final budget. And then on the 1110 meeting, our work session. I'm happy to take up the topic to continue the discussion on how do we approach rent increases in the future? I think that's a great topic. We also do want to share an update on our work plan that we presented back in May to kind of give the board an idea of sort of some of our strategic. Priorities, where we sit, where we continue to head in 2026. Thank you. And then I feel like it would be remiss if this is the end of the presentation. We did say at the beginning of the meeting that we would open up for public comment if there's anyone who hadn't gotten an opportunity to speak to the Boulder County Housing Authority. Presentation, anything that came up

1:13:39in discussion so it doesn't look like we've had anybody join us in the room? And there's nobody listed on that hasn't spoke. Yet, either in the room or virtually, so I'll close it in person. But I do want to just make sure there was nobody that was trying to. Get to a device. I was going to say, I think I see a hand. And Lynn, we've. Heard you speak already, virtually. But if you have additional comments in regards to what was presented. There's a three minute hawk in it. And just a reminder to hit star nine to raise your hand and then star six to unmute. Yeah, it's no surprise what I heard. From. The last commentary that you brought up, and if you don't mind just stating your name. For the record. Lynn siegel yeah. And this is regards to. The long term consequences of this. Trump administration and of the housing demands and.

1:14:38What's coming down the pike. Needs to be. Much more stringently planned for as we're going ahead. And I hear you speaking to the budget people about that coming up in the near future. But for right now, I think you need to take some really drastic measures and do something either with a state or with the city or with everybody that we can get. A graduated income tax. That's very extreme. We need. A wealth stabilization. A wealth inequity is the problem, right? And that needs to change. And it needs to change now in order that we don't. Have. A complete calamity in the budget and can't meet many of these needs. As people are being thrown out of their housing that they have now. Whatever percentage you want to call it. If it's 30% of your income. It's still. An impact. Whatever it is.

1:15:56And what's going to be in the future? Is our housing going to be 60%? Of our income. Is that what you folks are proposing? Because essentially that's kind of what happened. It's still a percentage. But. The impacts of inflation. And no health insurance. And the expenses onto all of these people that are attempting. To just have a space to live. Is not operative anymore. All bets are off. Would this current administration. And I couldn't stress the urgency, which I know that you all feel that something needs. To be done. Now. Yesterday. Actually, I've been complaining about this for decades. And now. It's come to the hilt and. It's not tolerable anymore. The homelessness level is just extreme. The ice detentions. The ability of people to stay in the housing that you've carefully and worked hard for. Them to provide for needs to be fixed. So.

1:17:18That's what I wanted to say. Thanks. Thank you. And I want to just check and see if there's. We've closed the public. Comment here in the room. And I'll just check with stuff and make sure. Commission levy. Well, let's find out if there's someone else. I did want to just comment. Back to Lynn Siegel. Oh, go ahead. And. I just want to thank you for your concern. About income and equality and about the lack of progressivity in our income tax code. Even though we ostensibly have a progressive income tax. At the national level, the federal level. In reality, It's not as progressive as it could be or should be. As you know. We are prohibited by the Colorado constitution from having a progressive income tax in Colorado. That's something that the voters can change. And I'm very hopeful that sometime in the next several years, as our budgetary problems become more acute and. As the extreme income inequality. Increases that the voters will wake up and vote for a progressive income tax, or at least a surcharge on very high earners. I would urge you.

1:18:42To use your influence with the current candidates for governor. To ask them to take a position on that because. Any effort. To refer this to the ballot or have a citizens initiative on this is really going to take support from the governor, which, as most people know, we have not had over the last several occupants. Of the governor's mansion. In fact, none of the occupants of the governor's mansion since Tabo. Tabor was enacted have supported changing our flat tax. So just to say that this is not a thing that we have any power over here at the county level. We do not have an income tax. We're not allowed to have an income tax. And it's up to the voters. So the state of Colorado to fix that. Great. Thank you. And I'll just check in with staff to make sure there's nobody else that was trying to join the virtual. Second public comment period.

1:19:42Hi, chair Lo. Jamie, this is Brianna Barber, Commissioner's office staff. At this time, there is no one else in the virtual room that would like to give public comment. Thank you. Thank you. Brie. Okay, so we'll close up public comment, and I just want to make sure if the presentation was done for BCha. Okay. I thought something that I wanted to make sure I didn't miss a slide at the end. Let's see here. And if Steph doesn't mind scrolling for just a moment, I think that was the last item on our agenda, but I want to make sure. Okay. Thank you. So there's no other items on our business meeting agenda, so we'll go ahead. And close.