Transcript

0:00:25Commissioner Zubitty? Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. And we're recording. Okay, good morning. Today is September 17th, 2026. This is a meeting of the Board of County Commissioners with Boulder County. We have Commissioner Stolzman and Levy present in the hearing room. Commissioner Lochumen is excused. And we are here this morning to start with our monthly public comment opportunity. And for those of you who have joined us before, you know the drill, but sometimes we get new people. We take comments of any sort for three minutes each for up to 50 minutes total. And the way reserve some time for the commissioners to respond if they wish to do that. So, and we will proceed in the order in which people signed up. And, excuse me, as soon as we get that testimony list up, okay, there it is. And I do ask, we always ask that you state your name for the record before you start speaking, even though I have just said your name. So the first person on the list is Leslie Forrester. And I don't see anyone responding to that. Test McDonald. Good morning. Test McDonald, Lions, Colorado. Last night I went to a lion's garden party, and it felt like it was so beautiful. And all the women were dressed up in their hats. And there were acres and acres

0:02:07of flowers run on organic regenerative practices, and it was just made you just feel like everything was okay in the world. And then I read your magazine, and I thought of all the good news about the family's receiving fresh, regenerative organic produce, and all the good housing that's much needed. And I thought that's so much good stuff. Then I think about Richard Nixon and how the press and the public and the business community and the government agencies all band together and exposed his corruption and demanded accountability. Now after decades of consumerism, hyper consumption, mass marketing, we forget that we are supposed to still hold the people accountable and how transparency is so important. Posec, if they were allowed, would be holding people accountable. It's important that they also hear from the public. Like I said last time, we must use the precautionary principle when it comes to new petrochemicals, aka pesticides. It makes no sense to kill the soil layer, kill the pollinators to help natives. How does that work? How does blanketing the land and petroleum products permit fires? Fire chief said that cheat grass is not a fire hazard, it's too short to be a fired hazard. Wildfire partners said that killing cheat grass is weed mitigation, but it's not fire mitigation. So it is a straight up lie to say this brain

0:03:44cheat grass will mitigate fire. In fact, we have proof that it correlates with causing nine of the 12 fires after the rejuvera experiments in Boulder County. So many Boulderites know that climate change is correlated with the use of petroleum products. So if we believe that global warming is real, you won't support pesticides. Regenerative land management prevents deservocation while pesticides cause it. It's a barbaric practice blanketing Earth in poisons, formerly used in a senseless killing in wars. Our collective soul is at stake. Save the waterways that hardly have any fish left. Save the bees who struggle already and save your constituents. Thank you. Oh, and there is no cheat grass and lions. Um, the weather must have, it's an annual, so it's really easy to get rid of naturally. So the ecosystem has taken care of the problem. So before you spray red hill, ask POS to go check it out and make sure there's even any cheat grass left. Thank you very much for coming and joining us this morning. We have Edward Yagi next.

0:05:11Uh, hello, good morning. Are my audio and video all right? Yes, they are. My name is Edward Yagi and I'm co - owner of sixth generation family property in Allen's Park. Last year, Boulder County began imposing illegal. Septic system and vacation rental licensing requirements and new one, justification. No legal authority, no public comment, no due process, no evidence. He was based on actual administrative costs. In doing so, you, the Board of Public Health and at least 15 individuals in Boulder County egregious egregiously violated multiple Colorado state and federal laws. In short, you illegally extorted tens of thousands of dollars from at least 41 innocent taxpayers and denied licenses to taxpayers. Including me who are 100 percent in compliance with absurd laws. You voted into effect. In the six months since I have brought this all to your attention, you have given no explanation, no refunds, no accountability, and persistent refusals to release documents under the Colorado Open Records Act. You have repeatedly insisted on the record on video that you haven't had time to do anything. On June 4th at a meeting with the Board of Public Health, Commissioner Stoltzman tried to raise this and the reaction of the rest of the room was titters and laughter. Your gears and shekels are in the County's own video for the entire world to see. Commissioners Levy

0:06:37and Lotoman, you and the health board members whom you appoint think that extorting illegal fees violating multiple laws and systematically ignoring almost certainly felony level misconduct. By your submordage is funny. Month after month of these public hearings, I asked you about all this and you just sit there pretending you don't hear a word I say. Or like today you refuse to show your face. So you don't have the time, you don't have time to address this. Okay Claire, I'm giving you my time, my remaining time right now to respond. You admit or deny these allegations. If you refuse to answer your silence or evasion will be viewed as evidence of your guilt publicity. I demand that you speak that this is my time to do not turn off my audio and video until the three minutes has reached. You've been silent for six months. Answer me now. And if you refuse missioner Stoltzman, I think you're as angry about this as I am. So please jump in.

0:07:48Response. Huh? Me and Senator Levy, I've asked you for your response. I'm giving you my time. For six months you said you haven't had time to address this. He's forfeiting his time. How. Are we faulty. Why do I. Bother coming here. Alright, Mr. Yagi, your time is up. Uh, you are free to use it. However you choose and we will respond or not respond at our discretion. And just as a reminder, public comment's not a back and forth. And we do take time to respond at the end of the hearing. So we'll make some comments at the end. Uh, Lynn. What. You're signed up later and I'll ask you to hold your comments until then. Chris Hill. Hi, my name is Chris Hill. I live in Gold Hill. And, um, I'm sure you know the change of culture. That has been happening up in our small community. Um, it's turned into quite a known party spot. Um, there's two businesses that are bringing in creating a huge negative impacts. Um, that are beyond the capacity of Gold Hills infrastructure and our small town character. Um, so there these businesses are bringing in more people than actually live in the town. Um, so it's affecting traffic parking problems. Um, emergency vehicle access, impedment.

0:09:50Continual noise, uh, code violations from amplified music and crowds tailgating. There used to be only four outdoor music events per year. And now, especially since COVID, there are numerous events per week. Much for joining us. Kathleen Sans. I don't see her in the hearing now. Don't see her online so we'll move. To Edward Ruscus. Hey there. Good morning. My name is Ed Ruskis. I live out in the county between Nywat and Longmont. And Ashley I think we talked about this subject a few years ago. Probably I'm going to speak about Vance Bran airport. I have been going, I've been part of the group that goes to the city Council meetings. I attend maybe four a year. And I guess basically I just have a question. Are you monitoring the situation. You know, we're trying to get landing fees. On there. We're trying to basically it's a financial situation to make the airport more viable. But you represent me. And I go there and I talk, but I really don't have much say as a county resident. So there's a great website out by some people that have come on boards called CircleJurks.

0:13:42live. I'm so funky name. But it monitors live airport activity over front range. It's really good because we don't need money, they pay to capture all of the transponder stuff from all the different planes. So they really can't hide. And I recommend it highly. So I've talked at Open Forum there in the beginning of the year. I had talked to the city Council asked them not to kick the can down the road. But it seems like that's the County Council for 30 years have been trying to just kick it down the road. And we haven't had anything done. And I'm asking you as a county resident. I mean, there's not a plane over my home. But you know, I'm out in the county off of 95th Street on the east side of it. And. I think really that's all I really had to say about it. I just need your help. You represent me. You represent our family and our LA VOD and a majestic height subdivision out there. And I don't know what else to say about it. So thank you for listening to me. I appreciate it. Okay. Yep. Thanks for coming this morning. Lynn Siegel. Lynn Siegel. I'm tired of being attacked. By like this person, Rachel friend who's going to be our County Treasure. I

0:15:21have to be in fear of my life because of her. She lied. That I followed her and Jessica Benjamin at a candidate form last year. She lied because I had this. Son. About. Excel energy. Not even Gaza. But that wasn't enough for her, was it. And the county with energy smart. Gaslighted me. 10 years ago. I went for an energy retrofit. And I found out that the county had forced the vendor that they suggested and then dropped. To do a solar install under adverse conditions. Why would you do that? Why? What. That's. Energy smart. I'm supposed to believe in energy efficiency. I work for 10 years for Excel energy to try to get a stimulus abilized it. And then your people. In energy smart lie. Why do you do that? Then I was gaslighted. Oh, once again for three years now be freezing goal low winner. Because of you! Because of this county. And you stare and look at me and just sit there. Just sit there. I had to miss a geothermal heat pump.

0:16:54Bid this morning because I had to be here. To protest. You know, my kid's father. Wanted abortions. Then he fought me for custody. He beat me up. Then he fought me for custody. How much more do I need getting beat up my racial friend. Who might infer for my life? I've never would have lied. I mean, I never would have followed them. I don't have any reason to talk to them. There was a whole page of a police report that I followed into their conversations. And the police were even coerced. Even the police were cowards, which doesn't surprise me with Steve Redfin running the police in Boulder. We said it had nothing to do with my sign. Nothing to do with my sign. Well, maybe the police know why Rachel did that. And you sleep at night. Shame on you. 73 years old. I can't even see my eight - year - old grandchild. Because I'm too upset about this. And I'm too freezing cold all winter to get anything done. Because of the county.

0:18:10Because of energy smart. Your time is up. Thank you. Daryl Monley. My name is Daryl Monley. And I'm grateful for this time to be able to speak to you. I just want to say that, um, spraying with synthetic chemicals must stop immediately. I don't want to be poisoned. And I don't want the land and the animals. And all the other people. The rest of humanity to be poisoned either. I wonder how can you say that you represent us. When you listen to the chemical companies, over the rights of the people, a Boulder County. You know, I don't feel like you're listening to the people of Boulder County. And that's who voted to UN to represent us. So I'm really wondering, what is it. That's happened here? Because it feels like since COVID, since the COVID, you know, era that I'm not seeing the representatives of our city, of our county, representing us or even trying to. I feel like we are just pushed aside and we have all sorts of huge surveillance technology being forced on us now that we never voted for. We have all sorts of things happening here that we stand up and protest again.

0:19:47But I don't feel like you hear us. I feel like you are listening to a different, a different. Set of commandments out there and not the Constitution of the United States or of Colorado. So I have a, you know, I have a very deep concern. As many people do, that we are just, we can stand up and protest, but we are not heard. We are not represented. So I thank you for this time to speak to you. Okay. Thank you. Um, Stephanie Collins. Oh, I'm sorry. I skipped Nancy Marquez. Good morning, Chair. B, Brianna Barber, Commissioner's office staff. I believe Nancy will be speaking on the other items in the morning session. I'll move her name. Okay. So she does not wish to speak to us at this time. All right. Then we will move on to Stephanie Collins.

0:21:03And I don't see Stephanie coming forward in the hearing room. And I think the record can reflect that everybody, uh, that is present with us has had an opportunity to speak. So we will end. Sorry to interrupt chair leapy. I just saw that Leslie Forrester has arrived in the Virtual Room if we can go back to Leslie. Oh, sure. Of course. Thank you. Give me one moment. Okay. So Leslie Forrester. You have three minutes to speak. Good morning. Can you hear me? Good morning. Yes. Thank you. Uh, I'm Leslie Forster. Um, thank you for the opportunity to speak this morning. Um, I want to reiterate that I do not want and the people of Boulder County do not want synthetical chemicals used on our public lands. We do not want life poisoned. This has been made abundantly clear over many Boulder County Commissioner meetings, uh, the past year. Seems like the institutions of our city County and Nation and our businesses have been stripped mined.

0:22:19While accountability died over the last what 10, 20 years or longer. Um. You know, feedback, which you've had plenty of it, you've been provided with an abundance of information. And I think, unfortunately, decisions seem to be relegated to the license propaganda of the corporations who are out to make money, um, not to the people. So with all of that feedback information, um, it can change an institution, but once that link breaks, uh, an institution cannot hear without learning anything. It processes contradiction indefinitely through reclassification and neutralization. Procedural displacements, symbolic responsiveness. And cognitive overload. While the formal structure remains intact. The institution stays busy. And becomes procedural. And loose as its ability. To let what it hears matter. So I'm asking. The commissioners as people. To pay attention. To God's life to the natural cycles of nature. To what we intuitively know supports life and our wellbeing and quit trying to manipulate it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much for joining us this morning. Um, I believe we have now heard from everybody who, uh, had signed up to speak this morning. So we will close this portion. Yes, I'm so sorry. Uh, Stephanie Collins has just joined the Virtual meeting. Would you like to pause for a moment for certainly we still have time available. Thank you.

0:24:44Sorry. That's fine. If you could just start by stating your name, please. Hi. My name is Stephanie Collins. And I am. Trying to, sorry, I'm trying to get everything. Working on my, I've been trying for a couple of minutes to get this together. I'm sorry. Um, so I just wanted to quickly comment on, um, some of the, um. Uh, things that you guys are touching on today. I wasn't able to hear anything before this. I tried like three different times to get on from three different types of semi computer. My phone. So anyway, um, I just wanted to. Make a quick comment about the, um. Some of it. And I guess my, um, my like short version would be that I, I think that, um, you guys talk a lot about kind of, um. Excuse me. You talk a lot in the proposal about reducing paperwork, simplifying income verification. And student income reporting, those things like that are very, very nice for my family, but I just wanted to also, um, encourage, uh, Boulder County Housing Authority to define success, just not by administrative, uh, efficiency alone, but measurable resident. Um, outcomes from these programs, uh, the number of participants, um, who are purchasing homes or developing small businesses. How long that success is lasting. I would also encourage you guys to kind of,

0:26:51um, make sure you're looking at the whole picture when you're developing these programs and, and not just, uh, kind of, um, there's more involved in success in these programs than there is. Being, I guess. I don't know. But focused on, I guess would be my, um, way of saying it. I think that there needs to be more buy - in from the individuals that are in these kinds of programs or, um. And more education about kind of like what it's truly going to be like after the program. Support ends and maybe a little bit, um. Looking into how you might be able to prepare people who are considering, um, being in these programs before they actually join to, you know, decrease that, um, kind of failure that's due to lack of spanning. I'm going to have to, um, stop you. Your time's up, but thank you very much for joining us. I do want to say that, uh, we do meet monthly as the board of directors of the housing authority. And we offer time at the beginning of that meeting for any comments from the public and residence. So you're welcome to join us for those meetings when, when we are sitting to do the business of the housing authority. Well, and I assume that the comments were intended for the next public comment

0:28:27session so we can just consider that. We can incorporate that. So thank you for joining us. Uh, Brianna, do we have anyone else who would like to speak with us this morning? Not for this item. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Now we have reached the end of our public comment period. And we do often take time to respond to, um, two folks who have come. So I invite Commissioner Stolesman if she has anything she'd like to say at this time. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you Mr. Aggie for sticking with, with us while we work on the process, um, my understanding is that public health has reviewed their process and, uh, made some changes so that folks with licenses shouldn't experience the same issues that you did earlier this year.

0:29:11So if you haven't recently reached out to them to just, you know, confirm that you're in good standing and that everything set, it would be a good time to do that. You're welcome to copy me on the email. And the commissioners asked about, um, fee refunds for anybody that got caught up in it. And they told us they would get back in touch with us. So we don't have the answer to that yet. Um, on the Gold Hill Noise issues, the staff has kept us aware of the issue. And I know you've talked with some of our team in our Code Enforcement CPMP side of things. Um, but the thing to do when there is a noisy situation is to call the sheriff's office. You can call the non - emergency line. Um, and the sheriff does do noise enforcement. Um, yes, they don't have enough capacity to just constantly go around and monitor speeding in noise and things like that. But it is something that they can do. And the Commissioners can't enforce the law, the sheriff enforces the law. So we can touch base with him about the issue. And I know our staff have tried to look at the, um, schedule so that, uh, you know, we can know when they'll be big events and things like that to understand, uh, when

0:30:18we should send somebody up, if we can proactively know that and things like that. So they are looking at it. And, um, you know, the peaceful enjoyment of your property is important to us. Um, the Vance brand airport issue is something that we're monitoring and following and keeping in touch with Council on. I do believe the city Council is making efforts to move toward landing fees. It's a slow deliberate process that they have to follow so that they can do it if they don't, then they, that it won't, the FAA won't approve it. So they have to calculate the costs. And the whole study they have to do, um, but I do believe that they'll do it. Um, it is taking far longer than everybody who's being disturbed would like. But at this point, believe they have a makeup of the board that will go in that direction. Um, and so I think that's a great question to ask people when they run for office and the great thing to stay tuned into. But I think they are on the right track. It's just a really slow process. Um, I could really tell you're going through a lot today. And I just want to reiterate that I care about you. Three years. And then just on the comments around the spraying and the environment, I

0:31:26agree that we shouldn't be spraying synthetic chemicals. And I haven't voted in favor of doing that. So while I do recognize Boulder County is doing that, I'm not in favor of it. Okay. And I'll just say a couple of comments myself in response to people coming. Um, I, I really appreciate that people do take the time to come and speak with us, uh, both at our monthly opportunities on Thursday morning. And at the, uh, in - person town hall meetings that we hold, um, we, I was going to say we, I do listen, uh, and I take my job very seriously. And I try to be responsive to the extent that I can. There are sometimes things that, you know, we hear about, that we're simply not able to necessarily address. And that's just sort of part of, a part of the landscape when we distribute governmental powers among the federal government, the state, various local jurisdictions. Um, I see, you know, test McDonald is no longer with us here. But, um, I, I just want to address this straw man argument about cheat grass and fire. That has not ever been the basis of my concerns about cheat grass. And so yes, I agree.

0:32:45It is not a serious fire hazard in that it is short. It burns very quickly. It does not create high temperature fires. Uh, that doesn't mean it's not harmful to, um, to native species. And that doesn't mean it's not harmful to the landscape because it, uh, germinates quite early in the spring. It sucks the water up out of the top layer. That is one reason it's called cheat grass. It deprives native plants of the water that they need because they germinate later. And that water doesn't, um, percolate down into the levels that the, uh, perennials are using. Mr. Yagi is not with us online anymore to hear any response. And I think Commissioner Stolzman addressed that adequately. Um, I unfortunately he keeps repeating the same thing about the meeting that we had with the Board of Health. You know, he, he heard snickering and Jeers in the recording. I can say that on my part that was not in response to a question about the septic system issues. There were lots of comments inside conversations going on before that meeting started. And I have taken the time to sit down with our director of public health to ask about the process for developing those regulations.

0:34:19I think all three of us have done that. I've spent time talking with our attorneys about it and as Commissioner Stolzman already said they're taking steps, uh, the Board of Health and Lexi Nolan, the Director of Public Health to, uh, to make it so it's not so onerous and unreasonable and really limiting the need for a new septic system, uh, permit to those where we don't have one on file so that we can't actually verify that the septic system is functioning properly and able to accommodate the additional guests. Um, Mr. Ruskis, thanks for joining us. Um, you're among many, many, many, many who we hear from around not just Vance brand, but RMMA. I think we've, we've really tried to work on this issue. It's frustrating. And I appreciate that. Uh, you know, where we can be your advocates, uh, but ultimately we don't have any regulatory authority. As I know you understand, but we are trying to, to be your advocates, uh, when you don't feel that you have a voice because you don't live within those municipalities also on Gold Hill, I do want to address that a little bit as well in that. Um, I was going to go up there Saturday night. A friend is playing at the Gold Hill Inn.

0:35:49And I'm not going to go because, uh, I have been up there and I have seen how, how disruptive that, um, that venue is to the town. And, um, and, and so, you know, as Commissioner Stolzman mentioned, our Code Enforcement division has opened a complaint in an investigation into the noise levels and the activities there. Uh, I don't know that we actually have, um, we do have a noise ordinance, but I'm not certain that we have any just standing regulations on hours of operation for otherwise legal uses. So we'll have to look into that a little bit more. But, but the time most recent time I went up there, I was, I was really stunned by the atmosphere, um, in quiet, lovely little gold hill. And I will, we'll be looking into what we can do about that. Um, Lynn, I think each of us has tried to listen and listen sympathetically and empathetically to your concerns. Um, and there comes a point for me where I feel that anything further that I will say will be, um, just considered provocative and not productive. And so that is why I have chosen not to respond further to comments that you make where I think our staff, um, city staff. We've all tried to help in any way we can. And there just comes a point

0:37:36where we're out of options. So I understand it's frustrating and difficult, but that's where I am, where I feel like it cannot do anything that would be considered productive. I think that's all I want to say at this time. I guess the last thing is the sort of a theme that we heard about, uh, corporate propaganda. And capture. I work very hard to think independently. On herbicide use, I spent many, many hours, um, looking for independent. Peer reviewed articles about, um, and dazaflam and how. It migrates or does not migrate through the very top layer of the soil horizon. About the effects of dense stands of cheat grass on. Biodiversity and specific league native pollinators about the kinds of pollinators that are attracted to monocultures versus the diverse nature of the native ecosystem. And I have based my decisions on that. Not on anything else.

0:39:02Um, and certainly have no relationship whatsoever to any of the multinational corporations that are producing these chemicals. So I try to do my job with integrity. And I have not, uh, in any of my. So we have another item on our agenda this morning. And that is a public hearing. And the Boulder County Housing Authority annual plan. And so we will now sit as the Board of Directors of the Boulder County Housing Authority. And we are required to take public comment during a 45 - day comment period. On our 2027 annual plan. And so. Kelly, are you going to be leading. This effort. So, okay. So we will then shift over to item 2B. On our agenda. Good morning. Public and Commissioners. I'm Kelly Schulz. I'm the housing Division Manager for Boulder County Housing Authority. And as was stated, we're here for the 1st of two public comment hearings on 2027 plans. So the first plan is the 2027 annual plan.

0:40:51It's a comprehensive plan for the housing authority. All housing authorities that receive housing choice voucher assistance must submit one of these plans every year. And then every five years. We're currently in the five - year plan that goes through 2029. And so these, the annual plans report on the progress of the goals that were initially stated in the first five - year plan, as well as any changes to the plan or any changes to the policy. Like wasted, this is put online and in our offices for 45 days to solicit any comments from anybody in the public, but also specifically to any BCHA tenants and BCHA - owned properties or voucher holders, whether they're in BCHA - owned properties or not. And then at the end of the comment period, any public comments will be incorporated into the plan, final plan changes will be adopted.

0:41:53Then it will be presented back during a business meeting for the commissioners to sign a couple of certification forms, as well as the city of Boulder. That the plan and all of the activities comply with the fair housing rules. And then it'll be submitted to HUD. The due date is October 18th, and HUD will have 75 days to review it to make any comments and suggestions before they would approve it to go into effect in 2027. So I figured I'd start, I've got a little presentation, but I figured I'd start and open it up in case there was anybody here or that had signed up to make any comments on this. Or however you would like me to do that. I was going to suggest Kelly that it might be more helpful to go ahead and hear the presentation. And then, so then the public may be a little bit better informed about what they might want to comment on. Sure. So let's do it that way. It's a little different than how we usually do our monthly meetings. Okay. So this first slide is just going to talk about the marketing efforts. There were 3, 290 messages sent out that had a 44 percent open rate of different ways. It threw it through text messages, emails, and then through a push notification for anybody

0:43:18that had the reach well app downloaded and installed. And then an additional 1687 messages went out specifically to voucher holders. The first one went out to everybody. The second one went out specifically to voucherholders to push on the MTW activities. And that supplement, uh, that had a 36 percent open rate and it was a mix of 891 text messages, 744 emails, and then 227 push notifications in the application. Uh, we tried something different this year because we had perceived feedback in the years past to offer a virtual meeting to make it easier for folks, um, the residents. And so that was held on Wednesday, September 9th from five to 6 p. m. I had probably seven or eight people ahead of time say that they were going to join and they wanted to be a part of it. I actually only had one person, uh, meeting. And then I had phone conversations with, uh, two people after the meeting who had tried and were not able to get in and just wanted some clarification. So I've got the comments summarized, actually next right here. So, uh, the summary from the resident meeting, um, was people were strongly in support. A lot of the comments were more focused on the MTW activities than the actual, um, annual plan activities that are in there. The annual plan

0:44:51does reference the MTW activities. But in specific, we spend a lot of time talking about the MTW activities that are being proposed. Um, opportunities for residents in the future to get into home ownership programs, uh, this person was particularly interested in the, will it be Corner Plan Home Ownership, the Affordable Home Ownership over there. And the Kestral O Affordable Home Ownership. This individual had some ideas for how we could better provide resident services through a better partnership with the residents and kind of encourage resident lead programming at our housing sites. They believed that this would be a way to encourage more engagement from the residents and more participation and would encourage buy - in overall. Um, and they specifically wanted to highlight two of our staff members that are on the resident services team for their work in creating community, um, in reaching out to residents and also, uh, trying to promote additional, uh, programming on the sites. And that was for Elena and Linda Way. So the summary of the goals, uh, we have 11 goals in the plan that we started with our five year plan. And this is just an overview of them, uh, one of them expanding housing, improving our operations and communications, supporting resident stability and self - sufficiency, increasing affordable housing, enhancing the community quality of life, advancing fair

0:46:29housing and equity, ensuring safe and equitable housing, expanding accessible and ADA housing, reducing our carbon emissions and implementing carbon reduction plans as well as expanding home ownership opportunities. And so our plan will go over, uh, the progress that we've done in 2026. Every year we report on the progress of the current year and sometimes touch on the year prior as well. And so the goals or the progress that we've worked on the goals is for expanding assisted housing, we continue to do more implementation under the move to work authority. We have been that program since, uh, 2024, 2025 was the first year that we were able to put in some activities. Um, not as many as we would like, but 2026, we added a couple more. And then 2027, we are proposing to add a few additional ones. And as a reminder, all of the activities must follow must fit within one of HUD's three statutory requirements, which is related to cost effectiveness, either to reduce costs and achieve greater efficiency in the program administration, um, promote self - sufficiency to households by giving them incentives to work, seek work, or prepare for work to help them become self - sufficient or to promote housing choice. So by increasing high quality housing choice for the eligible families on the program. So all of the activities

0:48:00are developed with one of those three. One or more of those three statutory requirements in there. And then in the next PowerPoint, we'll talk about what those are for 2027. Um, goal number two, improving how we work. That was a big one, especially for this last year. We have been working through a software transition, um, that was going to allow more opportunities for our tenants and voucher holders to engage in better ways with us that would reduce administrative burdens allow them to make reporting changes and make payments online that is something we have never been able to do. And it was also going to grant staff, better access to pull reports. And fulfill grant requirements for specific programs that we have not been able to do in the past. We continue to expand our outreach and engagement. So far just in 2026. We've held 14 or we've either held or participated in 14 outreach events.

0:48:59Um, reaching over 406 community members. And that was just in quarter one of 2026 alone. And we continue to constantly try and approve our public communications and access to housing information. I know our web pages, um, within the Boulder County site have been repeatedly looked at to make sure that they're not only following the accessibility guidelines, but that they are useful and easy to navigate to get to the most basic information that folks are looking for. The other project we've been working on is also updating our phone trees for the same reason to make them more concise. Uh, user - friendly and get people the information and the connections they need right away. We continue to support self - sufficiency. The family self - sufficiency program has 16 participants on track to graduate this year.

0:49:52And they have expanded their partnerships to support financial literacy employment and self - sufficiency. Under the move to work program, they're also exploring different options and making connections with other MTW agencies that run family self - sufficiency programs to look at how they can restructure their incentives, their escrow building, and study, especially programs that have been in the cohorts for quite some time to mimic some of their successful outcomes. Because overall, they want to help people become more self - sufficient. Whether that is through the goal of home ownership at the end. And so that is one of the big ones we began exploring this year is how can we make a stronger connection with our escrow incentive models to home ownership. So for 2027, we're not actually proposing any changes yet to any of the FSS. Incentive plans, but we have started looking at other housing authorities, DC being one of them. And their pipelines that they have created to help their family self - sufficiency folks graduate into homeownership at a higher level than most other agencies. Additionally, we continue with building affordable housing. We are advancing Willoughby Corner as anybody that's been coming to the other board meetings has heard through phases 2A through 3B. We're continuing our housing stabilization and eviction prevention efforts through our partnerships with the VASP funding and

0:51:32with the housing helpline. So far in 2026, and this might have only been through June. I don't know if this is totally approved to date through September, but they had received 177 applications. And these are households that can refer themselves in that are struggling with rent or at risk of eviction. And they had 98 approved as of the date of writing the plan. Which was the beginning of August. Goal number five is to continue to improve quality of life. And so we continue making connections with community service partners. Uh, big one is expanding our resident programming at our sites to include programs that, uh, our resident directed. I know that our resident services staff consistently get feedback from the residents on what they would like to see in programming. And that is something that we continue to kind of try to tailor to so that we're actually giving the communities. The classes and the supports that they want and need. Fair housing and equal opportunity.

0:52:37So we continue to try and, um, revamp a lot of our forms where we can to be more in simple plain language and easy, more easily understood for folks to be able to use them better. Uh, we regularly have a reasonable accommodation committee that meets twice a month once in person and once via consent to review any requests from tenants or voucher holders that want a modification to the policies that we have in place or an actual physical modification to their unit or the property, um, we continue to have staff training on that. In fact, there's an upcoming one with CHAFA about that to help the staff that sit on the committee, make sure that they are complying with the regulations that they need to and that we're engaging in an interactive feedback with residents over that. Additionally, every two years we have all staff, especially any staff that comes to, that has any interaction with the public to go through a fair housing and reasonable accommodation training, just as a refresher and especially for new staff, so that they all understand what their requirements are as a staff member to recognize when a reasonable accommodation request as being made and also to make sure that they are following the fair housing policies. And that training is scheduled for November 10th. We will have CHAFA

0:54:07will be coming out on site to our location Willoughby Corner. And so we will have all the staff, the housing staff in person for that. Finally, our other goals continuing annual inspections and ongoing of monitoring assisted property. So we regularly do inspections at least once a year on the property management side and maintenance. And then in the voucher program, we do them, uh, annually and biennially. And this is also to just make sure that all of the housing units that people are living in are complying with the current regulations for health and safety. We continue to make sure that all of our properties are meeting Section 504 and ADA compliance and that we have accessible signage and accessible materials on site. And then, uh, some of our bigger goals on reducing carbon admissions. We have continued to make sure that we have energy efficiency into all of our projects. And some of those include advancing the EV charging infrastructure at several of our housing sites.

0:55:14And then, um, this last year in particular, we went to some of our older sites and we did some significant energy efficiency upgrades. And those sites were located hillside and Lewisville, Catamaran Court in Gun Barrel and Cottonwood in Longmont. And as part of a separate goal, also still on implementing the carbon emissions reductions included these specific activities that were done where we did some HVAC work and heat pump implementations, uh, we continue to evaluate heat pump and geothermal and other high efficiency HVAC systems. Uh, we do carbon neutral landscaping. And as we're building new sites, we are always looking for, uh, making sure that we have adequate EV charging stations on site. Home ownership opportunities. That is one that, um, in the previous years, we had just been researching about as there were several other, well, there were a couple, not several. There were a couple other affordable homeownership opportunities, but not necessarily with the county. And so that is a goal that we've been really working on this year in particular to expand it.

0:56:23Um, one of the things I know Commissioner Lochumen had been concerned about was the home ownership classes had not been offered in Spanish for quite some time, but we do have a partnership with a community resources and housing development corporation. And they are doing Spanish classes, which have had regular attendance on that. We are working on, um, the Development of the Affordable Deed Restricted Units at Willoughby Corneby Corner and Kestral. And I know we have some plans in the work for what those home ownership opportunities are going to be, are going to look like in the future. And so then that's all I had on the annual plan. The other things, so that the plan itself is a pretty large document. And this was available online for everybody to view and anybody that requested a copy. I would mail it to them too. It was also in our offices. So it goes over all of these goals and then it has a set of, um, specific requirements of attachments that we must include a lot of it come from the voucher administrative plan. And then information on our finances, our organizational chart, uh, we incorporate the draft plan right now does not have the RAB and the public comments in there, but the finalized plan will have that after today, uh, along with all of

0:57:39our outreach efforts and the legal ads that we're, um, published. And then, and then the following things will be the Board Resolution asking the board for permission to submit this along with all the certification forms. And then the final plan once it's all adopted and submitted to HUD a copy will be uploaded on our website and available for the public. It's a huge document for people to try and like digest. And so what I did this year is I tried to put it into a much smaller format. This is only five pages. And trying to use more of the plain language template to structure it down to folks and I sent this out in addition to the actual full plan to folks just to say, what does this mean for you, um, what are the things that we're focusing on kind of more in a digestible bites? And this is, these are the documents I got, uh, the best response on from folks, uh, being able to look into this and kind of understand and focus in on one or two of the items that they really wanted to talk about when I was talking to some of them on the phone. So now I don't know if you want me to turn it over for any public comment or if you had any comments

0:58:53that you would like. Yeah. Thanks Kelly. I noticed that we've got the, uh, the annual plan and the MTWan as separate agenda items. And you were speaking to both. Well, I did want to make sure that you did speak to both of them here or whether you also had some additional, um, information about the MTWan. I do. So HUD has required that we noticed them as two separate meetings. And I know we just have, we just normally go back to back. And so I'm happy to go straight into it. The annual plan references pieces of the MTW, but then the whole separate document, the MTW supplement that HUD requires that we notice as a separate public meeting and have a separate like discussion period on. So I'm happy to just move into that too. Let's do that just because of people want to, you know, they may not, they may want to speak to both and I don't want to make them come back again and then figure out if they're talking to the right document at the right time. I just wouldn't want to jeopardize the credibility of if had wants us to do it as two separate agenda topics. And we noticed it as two people should have two opportunities to comment, I think. I understand that. And I was thinking about that.

1:00:11But I think we can, um, I think we can take action. Um, I mean, they are two separate plans. And we are holding a public hearing on both of them. I just, I feel like it's a little formalistic to say, Oh, no, now we're only taking comment on the annual plan, even though the annual plan refers to the MTW. And et cetera. So I think as long as we hear both plans, get comment on both plans and then act on both plans. I would feel comfortable with that. I just don't know why we would potentially, like with the federal government, we have right now, I don't know why we would create any potential for a ripple. You know what I'm saying? I just like. You're probably right that it would probably be fine. I just, I would hate to jeopardize our. Yeah. Well, we will, um, I mean, I think what's important is that we take comment on both of these plans this morning. And they are separate plans. So, um, I mean, I just, I don't want to have to have redundant duplicative testimony and have people try to sort out what they're here for. I mean, you are the chair. So you will, you can make the decision. Absolutely. I was just sharing my perspective. Yeah. I understand. So, um, Kelly, please do

1:01:30go ahead and present on MTW at this time. Sure. Um, so 2027, um, the MTW supplement, uh, does not follow the same structure as the five year plan. This can change yearly. It's not locked into any sort of five year type of goals. It just allows us the opportunity to explore activities, uh, directly related to the voucher program and how we administer the voucher program as long as their meeting one of those three statutory guidelines. And we can also choose to, um, discontinue an activity if we find that it's not meeting one of the guidelines or not following the purposes that we intended it to be for or that, um, that we get public feedback that we need to stop it. So it has the same marketing efforts as the, um, annual plan since it's an attachment to the annual plan. It was sent out at the same time. It was, uh, marketed the same way and had the same resident meeting. And so this slide is a repeat from the last one. And this particular resident was in particular specifically talking about the MTW supplement. And the items that they were mainly focused on is a lot of the activities that we have proposed in this year and that we proposed and prior years were directed towards administrative flexibilities and reduction of administrative work

1:03:01for both staff and for the residents. And this resident was particularly excited about it because one of the ones that we have been proposing for a while, but then we're limited to, to our software was medical deductions. So in the voucher program, if your household is considered elderly age 62 or older or the head of household or your spouse or Cohead is disabled, um, then that household qualifies for medical deduction expenses. What that means is that household can collect all of their out - of - pocket medical expenses receipts throughout the year. There is a formula in that you take three percentage. I think it's three percent. But as long as a medical expenses exceed that, then they can be deducted from the rent portion. It's not exactly dollar for dollar. And it takes quite a bit of medical deductions and medical expenses to result in an actual savings from the rent. Um, and it's a lot of work. And due to for both sides, for households to sit there and collect all the documentation and then turn it in. Staff have to review it, make sure that it's following the IRS guidelines as far as what is allowable deductions. And the back and forth.

1:04:33Um, there's a lot of collecting information from doctors on diagnosis and types of, uh, of, of very sensitive medical information that we're not allowed to keep. So you collect all of this. You have access to all of it. You make all these calculations that may or may not result in a big savings to the household. And then you have to shred it all because you can't keep it in the file. And so what we saw with other MTW agencies is that that was one of the first activities they proposed to go is instead of, uh, making households turn all of their medical documentation in just creating a lower calculation for them, just for the fact of being qualified household. So most households or all households, um, under this, we would be proposing for the elderly and disabled folks that they would pay 26 percent of their adjusted gross income. And this was approved by HUD in our 2025 plan. It was supported by all of the residents at that time. But then when it came to trying to implement it, our software system was not able to accommodate that. And that was one of the reasons that we made the switch or looked into making the switch amongst many other reasons. And so we now have the capability to do that. And so we are

1:06:00working with our new software company and our consultants to get that set up for 2027 for all the 2027 research. So this particular voucher holder was really excited about that because her household in particular is one that she has started to collect. She is continuously started to collect medical receipts. Then life gets in the way and she has never turned them in. And so she's never benefited from that. And so she's actually really excited for that change. And then in years past, I've heard that from lots of different residents on the MTWan, that was her specific comment. Um, she was one of the people signed up for comment earlier and made a comment. And when she was referencing, um, that she wanted some of the plans goals to focus on self - sufficiency and home ownership. And so she's one that I've talked to in great length about the programs that we're looking at developing.

1:06:57And just to speak to that for her, like when we start doing some reporting with, um, with HUD for our empty W activities, it's not just to show them cost savings. It is to show resident outcomes. And that is some of our goal, too, is, uh, to show better resident outcomes. Whoops. Did I repeat that? I'm going to repeated that the continuing of some of our activities. We plan to continue the activity that we put in place several years ago for PBV administrative flexibilities. Um, and we've made no changes to that for 2027. Uh, I don't know that we're going to be able to expand the PBB program given where we are sitting right now with HUD and with funding. But in the event that we are, we have that flexibility as far as when we want to, we want to expand the program, how we can expand the program and who's responsible for reviewing any applications related to that successful activity that we implemented in 2025 that we, or I'm sorry, in 2026 that we continue, we plan to continue for 2027 is our streamlined utility allowance calculation. HUD requires that you calculate utilities based on the local agencies in the county. We have several utility providers. And then you have several options for utilities as far as whether it's propane heating or gas

1:08:22heating or baseboard heating or electric heating. And so each like category had multiple line items that you'd have to figure out electrical cooking versus gas cooking hot water heating electrical versus gas or propane. And then you go through all this water sewer trash. And the utility allowance plus the rent that the landlord is charging cannot exceed the payment standard. Um, when people are looking for units, there's some flexibility, but the basis is that that's what it is. And it made it very complicated for voucher holders and landlords to even understand what the voucher program could cover because of all the different line items. It also was, uh, it's been a tracking kind of error as well as sometimes landlords would tell us one thing when a household, um, was initially moving in and then the lease would reflect different utility breakdowns. So what we proposed in 2026 was to make just one line item. It's an average of all of the costs. And it doesn't matter what kind of building you're looking at, whether it's a duplex or a single family home or an apartment complex. It doesn't matter what the type of utilities are, um, but we broke it down as whether tenant's going to pay partial or all. And it makes it a lot easier for people to understand the voucher amount and

1:09:47what is covered. And so we plan on continuing that into 2027. We do hire a third party entity. Now rod to do a utility allowance study for us. And they, um, they come up with this calculation. And so they just review all of the rates between Excel and, um, the city along Montmon and the city of Boulder and the Schrader propane companies to make any adjustments for any cost increases before they propose a new schedule. So we, we plan on continuing that activity, uh, we in 2025 started doing, um, alternative inspection scheduling. This was more of a cost savings. And this was, um, we deviated from the model that we need to do in inspection every 12 months on a unit to, if your unit passes, uh, the inspection, then we'll put you on a biennial schedule. And then if it fails, then you go back to an annual schedule until it passes. And that's just to ensure that the landlord is making the repairs that they need to be made and keeping up with the, uh, maintenance that they need to do on the units. And so far that's been very successful. We have not had any issues with that. It did reduce our costs significantly. We saw, um, costs for inspections were averaging right around 10 to 12, 000 dollars a month. And

1:11:11now they're around four to 5, 000 dollars a month. So we have seen a significant reduction for that. And that money comes out of our administrative funds, not out of the hap funds. Uh, so for 2027, the new activities I'm listing the 26 percent as a new activity because it hasn't actually been launched yet. So that's going to be a new activity. And then another new activity is we were extending the PBV portability. So, um, we had already extended this and we made it so that tenants that get up project - based voucher, uh, per HUD's requirements are allowed to live are required to live in their unit for 12 full months before they can request the next available voucher. We had a growing waitlist because of that. And so last year we had increased that limit to 24 months. And this year we're proposing to increase that to 36 months. Um, that's in line with Boulder Housing Partners and some of the other move to work agencies. But on top of that, I feel like we still need to kind of prioritize. We have so many different special purpose vouchers and internally. We have allocated a lot of vouchers to different programs. And so we needed to really set up, um, when we have available vouchers, what is going to be our tier for

1:12:40issuing those to which populations. And so that's something that's being proposed in here is when we have turnover vouchers and we're actually able to open a lottery and issue vouchers, how are we going to do that? So the, the proposal for this year would be that, um, households that are wanting the next available housing choice voucher. Voucher preferences, which include our homeless admissions set aside for families. And then our homeless admissions set aside for people in the community that was created through the homeless solutions of Boulder County program. And then the remaining amount would go through the lottery. Like we would open the lottery back up and allow folks in the community to be eligible for vouchers. So that is going to be the proposal. And that should say 60 percent and not 40 percent right there. through the lottery. And so what this does.

1:13:54Oh, and on top of that though, the protected key exceptions would be, um, we'd continue reviewing tenant - based assistance. The housing choice voucher request that are related to VAWA protections. So if we're getting a vowel request from somebody in a project - based unit, they're not going to necessarily be required to have lived their 36 months before we issue them a voucher that they can move with. And specific, um, disability to related requests under reasonable accommodation as well would be exceptions to the 36 month time limit. The other thing that we were proposing to do is simplify the student income reporting. It was already a little bit difficult. And then Hotma going into effect was adding some new nuances on what kind of income you would count from households with eligible full - time students. And in the past, and I think starting with Hotmaie, you also had to start counting. If they received scholarships, grants, or financial aid that exceeded the amount of their tuition, you had to count that as income. We want to encourage people to continue on the path of education because we know that is a strong pillar towards self - sufficiency. And so we don't want to exclude, or we don't want to discourage people from going through education opportunities in the event that their rent's going to

1:15:17go up based on their scholarships and grants that they're receiving. So we are proposing to exclude all of that. If you were a full - time student, going, uh, however the school, it's the full - time status is defined by the school you are attending. We are going to exclude all of the income from scholarship's grants and financial aid. This also reduces the documentation requirements on staff and the verification requirements on the households. So. Um, the overall goal for all of these activities is just to simplify our rent and income policies to make it easier for staff and also easier for households. And hopefully to promote some stability and create more efficient use of our time. The other activities that we are promoting is this one we have seen with DC and a couple of other housing authorities is establishing a three - month stability period with interim re - exams, just around when somebody is brand new to the program when they have moved units, or they just had their recertification. So a lot of times, that's a lot of documentation for all of those items. And it's a lot of getting people used to the program, uh, and the new, the new calculations where administrative issues can come up as if we have frequent rent changes and income reporting in that area. And

1:16:46so we are proposing that there will be no interim re - exams occurring within three months of all of those activities. However, there is a hardship policy for that. If that the household has lost the income due to no fault of their own, if they were let go from a job, um, if the benefits stopped coming in that they can request us to actually make a change. So this is, this is kind of one that's outside of some of the other activities. And this would be a new one for us since it does require a hardship policy. So we'll just kind of test this and see if this does actually help promote some administrative efficiencies and incomestability overall from the program and see if this is one that we continue going forward after 2027. Um, this other one is this one is a new change too. So currently households have to supply all asset verifications for all assets in their household. And it doesn't actually count towards their income until it exceeds income until it hits the 50, 000 dollar, but you still have to provide all of the verifications. And nowadays, people have so many, um, virtual assets. We've got like PayPal and Cash App and Zell and Bitcoin. And like Venmo, like the applications out there where people chime. They can have all

1:18:22these accounts. And it's, it's very troublesome and burdensome on the households to get all of that documentation together. Um, it's also, they have to do it for their food assistance, uh, EBT cards. They have to give us documentation of those balances. So what we are proposing is that if households self - certify that they have, um, no more than 50, 000 dollars of assets, that's all they need to do. Just self - certify it and not turn in any of the documents. Anybody over 50, 000 dollars would need to provide the verification. So that's pretty limited to folks that have, um, pretty large, uh, 401ks or trust. And I should have pulled, but I don't have it right in front of me. It's a small amount of households that would still have to report documentation overall out of all of the, um, 870 plus households on the program. So we're excited about this. Most MTW agencies have implemented something like this, starting with the 5, 000 dollar limit will change it to a 50, 000.

1:19:31We're seeing that most of them are adopting the same thing. So. And so when a hardship policy has to occur. So HUD has set up some pretty specific guidelines around the MTW activities. Um, if you are proposing as an agency to do any sort of activity related to rent reform, um, where you're having the tiered rents based on incomes or stepped rents to graduate people off the program or you're proposing any term limits of assistance or work requirements, uh, those activities specifically have to have a hardship policy in place. And you must have it in writing. You must attach it to the plan. And then if a family requested, you must suspend the empty W activity for that household. Initially until a decision is made, whether they qualify for that. So like I said, we will have a hardship policy for the medical deductions because there are a small set of households that do have quite a bit of medical deductions. And so if they would like to continue using their medical deductions that they've previously reported, that is built into our hardship policy. And that was a hardship policy already approved by HUD. In 2025. And so this is just kind of the overlying, if they're going to receive, if they're going to be experiencing a new policy on calculating medical, they would be

1:21:11eligible to request a hardship relief. And it would allow the eligible households to transition gradually into the new ranked calculation. Year one, we would use annual recertification. Year two, we would use 50 percent them fully into the MTW ring calculation. This is also kind of just subject to we haven't even explored this yet. So, um, we may make some changes overall to this activity after 2027. And we see how it goes. Um. We have to have a hardship policy because of our interim are proposed interim decrease or are proposed limit on interim requests. And so this is where it allows households to still request an interim if they're in that three month period. If the loss of income is involuntary and can be verified. So being laid off from employment, um, being let go or having their benefits reduced or stopped when it's not caused by fraud misrepresentation or failure to meet the program requirements.

1:22:19And so we will work with them to collect the documentation just to support the file. And then we would process the interim for them. And so then our next steps, it's the same as the annual plan. We'll finalize the actual plan document, collect all the certification forms. Um, at the next business meeting. Then submitted to HUD on or before October 18th, they have 75 days to review it and make comments. Uh, January one, any activities that were previously approved in like the 2026 plan will continue. But then any brand new activities, we will have to wait for HUD approval. And then we'll determine a start date. Uh, last year HUD approval came like December 24th, 23rd. And so some of the activities we couldn't start until, uh, February or March, just depending on where we were in the recertification cycle. So. Yeah, and then the MTW supplement itself is not as big as the annual plan, but it's still, it's a specific HUD form that is related to all the different options that you can choose to implement that are HUD related. And then you have local non - traditional activities, which we haven't proposed yet. So it's also another one that's kind of like cumbersome to look at. But again, it's not as many pages, but it is still 30 some pages. And so

1:23:41I, this year, I put it also into one that was more directed to, um, the voucher participants and what directly affects them and tried to break it down into simple language. And every year, uh, the majority of the calls I get is just over the title of the program being moving to work. A lot of people get really scared that that means I'm forcing them to go back to work. So that's a lot of the calls that I end up fielding is folks that are elderly or disabled just telling me that they can't go back to work. So, um, but then when I explain like some of the activities that we're doing and how it's going to be beneficial to them and we're not trying to make them go back to work or take away their housing assistance that usually goes very well. So. So that's, that's all I had to say on those. That's all thank you, Kelly. That, that is a lot. And, um, I, I, I think I can speak for both of us that we really appreciate your attention to detail and just how complex this regulatory landscape is that we're working in. And I can hear in everything you say and all of the activities and things that you're reporting on that you and your entire team in the housing

1:24:59authority as a whole are really keeping their eye on the ball of we're trying to make sure people get housing, housing that's affordable that they keep that housing and that it offered them an opportunity to have the life that they would like to have. Um, Commissioner Stolzman, was there anything you wanted to ask about or comment on before we moved to public hearing? I would just echo your attention to detail just your presentation style. It's just lovely. Um, and thank you for, I think you've presented three times recently to us and each time it's just delightful. So thank you for what you're doing. Great. So I do want to now offer an opportunity to people who have joined us to comment on the, um, BCHA annual plan, uh, or the moving to work supplement to the annual plan, um, speak to us now. If we're three minutes each and I see we have three people who did sign up and so we'll just take you in that order. Brianna, I hope we didn't lose people here as the, as the morning went on. So the first person on the list, Stephanie Collins, I see you are still with us, Stephanie. You're welcome to unmute yourself and then you'll have three minutes. Right. I am. Is it possible for me to go towards the end? Um,

1:26:26you'd like to, you want to, well, we have three people. You'd like. Sure. Um. I think we can accommodate that. We also have Nancy Marquez. And see, if you can please unmute yourself, we'd love to hear from you. There you are. Okay. I think I did. Oh my goodness. Yep. You're doing. You're good. Oh, oh, oh, praise God. Okay. Um, hi, first I want to say thank you so much to Kelly who spoke that that was wonderful. Um, I'm a great pool recipient of Section eight. Um, I just recently found out that I was part of the EHV, um, which I wasn't even aware of. Um, I didn't realize that. And I am a single mom. I have four kids. Um, I, you know, I guess the first thing I would like to say I need to talk quick. Okay. So I, I think the move to work program is fantastic.

1:27:45Um, however, it is, you know, there are more components that should be, uh, taken into account, I think. As far as homeownership, I, that is all new to me. Um, I've been, uh, part of the Section A E HV program since 2019, I believe. And, um, it's ending is what I was told. Um, beautiful funding, not being adequate enough. And it's, it's quite brightening because I don't have family. I don't have friends. I'm about to receive disability, which I don't know how that's going to go. And my ex does not pay child support. I've already dealt with, you know, that and trying to get that situated. Um, my bottom line in, and I don't know if someone wants to contact me later, but as far as the inspections, I'm sorry, I'm jumping all over the place, but I know this is almost over. Um, the inspections that are done, the place that my children and I lived at, um, from 2000, the end of 2018 to October of 2025. Yes. That's right. Um, it's clover basin village departments. I have tried to contact everybody. I've let different housing people know because I didn't have one housing person for quite a while. I didn't know who that was. And then I had three people to talk to. But they need to be. Under investigation. Um, their

1:29:24inspections are not thorough. They're not doing what they're supposed to be doing. And I've spoken to them about it as well. I just feel that people are. I don't know what the right thing to say. And I don't know if it's should be spoken about in a public forum. So if someone wants to contact me later, please feel free to do that. I just feel like I am so grateful for what my children and I have been given. And I hope it can continue because I honestly don't know what we'll do otherwise. And as far as the people that still live where we used to, I worry for them, not only for, you know, they're living situation, but for their health as well. So I'm sorry I was all over the place. And God bless you guys. I'm sorry. And you guys are wonderful. Have a great day. Yeah. No, don't apologize. And Nancy, um, if we have your contact information, I'm sure somebody will reach out to you. And you're also always welcome to send us a message or come to one of our monthly board meetings and share additional detail with us. But thanks for sticking with us through this long morning. Oh, great. Yeah. Trisha. I don't know how you do your job. Yeah. Thank you. So we'll move on to Trushana

1:30:38PHA. Good morning. I am Trishana Pye. I have a few comments that I would like to address. I don't live in a community ran by BHA and I'm not notified of services or exams or programs. And how can we change that? Also, I ported in from another, um, state. And they have control over my voucher. I'm on an EHV. And I'm not able to participate in the FSS without giving up my voucher due to family dynamics. This creates a future barrier. If there is no set home ownership, um, program in place, uh, I was thinking maybe there should be Spanish classes help for any English speakers due to job requirements that are now in place due to the expansion and the diversity of America. I also want to say that EHV holders, how are we going to be supported during the phase out and the housing authority taken in consideration of our families? I also wanted to address the utilities, um, that's a major expense from our family. I have a child who has a disability. I have a child that requires childcare and due to federal cuts and programs that I don't have the financial means to put her into, um, a facility. So I can work and my utility are not covered by the, um, voucher program. And I've been struggling for the

1:32:01past year in long month. Um, also, um, I have a question. Is it going to be project - based vouchers over EHVs or are you going to find a way to implement a structure so that we don't get weaned out in the pasta and have stable housing. And I was also wondering, is there a hardship program for families that have disabilities or small children with disabilities that aren't able to, um, afford childcare. That is one of my biggest problems, um, right now. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for those comments. And when we're done here with public comment, uh, we, we may be able to respond to some of those questions that you have. So Stephanie, we're going to circle back to you if you're ready. I, I am. Thank you so much. I appreciate the time. Um, so I guess I just wanted to say that, um, I was one of the people that spoke with Kelly and I'm a former EDI Looseville EDI test force member. And I am also a voucher holder. Um, I'm married with two children, one adult child with a disability in one eight year old child with a disability. And if the last lady that talked, um, you would share my information with her Kelly. I could help her. We just got, um, some situations worked out

1:33:35with, what are they called? Uh, waiver for our child and some resources that she could really use. I just wanted to say that I support a lot of the, um, changes to MTW. Um, I guess mostly because our family is going to benefit greatly from the fact that, um, we don't have to, um, get all this medical paperwork together with my partner and myself being disabled and on SSDI, that whole process was just overwhelming. Um, I think that pursuing, um, ownership and entrepreneurship is a great pathway. Um, FSS is doing a really great job with that. I'm excited to have them start the home ownership, um, or the, um, some of the, um, changes that, uh, Kelly Mate mentioned in her presentation. Um, I am going to submit like a recap of like larger points, um, to Kelly before the next time, um, she meets, but I do agree. She's a really awesome person to, uh, break things down and present them in a way that's digestible to people.

1:36:22I do want to check with you, Brianna, and just make sure that there wasn't anybody else who had joined us online who did want to speak at this time. And while you're confirming that, please go ahead and you'll have to state your name again for the record, and we'll want to make sure that we get your name on our signup sheet. Yes, I'm Dariel Monley. And basically what I would like to say is that I really enjoyed the presentation. I think you did a wonderful job with very complex subject. I'm wondering if you are actually, if the concern for the scarcity of water is something that you are including in your consideration for housing, for affordable housing, and certainly for the County Commissioners, that the scarcity of water in the situation with the Colorado River, these are things that should be reflected in every different agency out there at this point, and the concern for our farmers, you know, that is also that, you know, whether they need, you know, they need help in their housing situations as well. We need to eat. We need to have water. And we know that both of these things are in jeopardy. So I'm hoping to just give the message that we recognize this out here and that it needs to be taken care of. I was at

1:37:59a city council meeting recently where only one council member brought up the issue of water and of the farmers. And nobody else spoke about that. It's as if those concerns are not showing up on the radar of the people that represent us. And so every agency should be concerned about this. And I don't mean that you need to be putting this on to the people who are struggling to be the affordable housing thing, but we need to be aware of it. And, um, in the mobile home park where I live, orchard grove, uh, there is no regulation around water. And I know it's a very difficult, you know, it's wonderful. I can have a garden and I can water. But I realized that this is not something that can go on that we really have to be responsible for the amount of water that we use. Especially in the drought years that, yeah, that we're looking at here. Thank you. Okay. Thank you for those comments. So we have now, uh, taken public, uh, testimony on both of the plans that we are considering this morning. Um. Kelly, I guess maybe I would invite you if you feel that you want to make any additional responses. And I and our director of the Housing Authority, Susanna Lopez Baker is here with us any additional comments

1:39:26before Commissioner Stolzman and I way in. Yes, Michair, if you don't mind, as Suzanne Lopez Baker Boulder County Housing Authority executive director, I do just want to thank, um, all of those that gave testimony today, but specifically want to speak to the EHV voucher holders. That is the emergency housing voucher program. That is set to end at the end of this year. Um, I just, uh, invite all of those who joined us today and we will follow up as well. But to reach out to our office, we are working diligently and closely with HUD to ensure that, um, we are doing everything we can to convert those voucher, holders, if possibles. There's a lot of restrictions that we're untangling right now, but our intention is to, um, absorb those voucher holders. Um, and the movement recently with HUD. And so we remain very optimistic about being able to, um, essentially convert those EHV vouchers into a more long - term stable voucher situation. Um, but please again, reach out. We want to make sure that we do know all of those voter holders across the county. I think one of them did say that their voucher does not in fact live with BCHA and so we don't always know, um, if there is another voucher from a different agency that does reside here in Boulder

1:40:40County, we are trying to track down that data. Um, but we don't always know. And so it's, um, I'm very thankful that they did come forward and let us know. And we will absolutely follow up. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Kelly. Anything else? Um, and we do have in our current administrative plan. We do have preferences built in for, excuse me, households that are terminated due to insufficient funding. Do get priority. When we are going to open, uh, wait list. And so that would trump the priorities and that, uh, breakdown I had in the move to work supplement about how we would allocate issuance of vouchers to turn over programs. They would get priority first in planning for the ending of the EHV program. We had already added any additional preference point for those households.

1:41:32Um, to get even more preference to be added to the general HCV wait list and be first in line to get a voucher. But as Susanna said, we are really hopeful that the month with HUD and we're expecting to hear some news by the end of this month about the plan for not just our, um, each v holders, but the other 41, 000 across the nation. So, but I will follow up directly with Trashanna too, just to dive deeper into your particular situation and where you kind of sit in the program and whether since you are a port in and how that affects you, um, and as well as Nancy, I'll make sure to connect you with your voucher specialist and we'll look into the issues with clover basin as well. So. Good. Okay. Thank you. Um, thank you so much, Commissioner Stolzman. Any questions or comments? I don't have any questions. I really appreciate the effort. And I think seeing the goals laid out and having this whole comprehensive view and then hearing from people and the MTW designation is great. Good job. And I don't think I have any questions either. I mean, it is a, it's a lot of work. They're both big documents. And I actually really appreciate the time that you took to go through it with us here. It's,

1:42:55uh, in previous life with the previous housing authority, you know, I would get a big doorstop delivered to my house. And, uh, and not this kind of comprehensive presentation. And I, and it does really give us a great window into, into everything you're doing. Um, the complexity of it. And then I also just think, you know, I was excited when we were accepted into the moving to work program, um, it sounds like we're really taking advantage as much as we can of all the flexibility and opportunity and everything you're doing, what I hear from you is you're doing this to make life easier for our residents. Um, the paperwork can be just enormous and draining on them. And they have lives to live as well. So I really appreciate that attitude. I always, um, comment on FSS because I wish it could be a bigger program. And, um, so anything we can do to make space for more people in that program, I think would be fantastic. And the only thing that came up for me in that, you know, when you were, when you were addressing, uh, family self - sufficiency was whether any of the local financial institutions, credit unions in particular might, maybe they were already doing this might have some sort of, uh, you know, a matching program, you know, to

1:44:31further incentivize your encourage savings. I don't know whether that might be possible. And the legislature has created a couple of tax credit programs that are funded when we have table surpluses. I forget what they call it. Something working family affordability. Something or other like that. And then the state, uh, the state's EITC. And I hope that we're making sure that all of our FSS families are able to fully take advantage of those opportunities as well. So those were the things that came up for me. I think we do need to take action. And make a decision whether or not to accept these plans. So let's take these separately, uh, and so we will first address the Boulder County Housing Authority 2027 annual plan move to accept the plan. I second that motion. All in favors.

1:45:33Aye. So we have accepted that plan. Thank you very much for that work. We know we'll, um, consider whether to accept the moving to work supplement to the annual plan for 2027. Move to approve. I second that motion as well. All in favor say aye. Hi. So we have done that. Um, thank you so much. We will be in recess. Well, we will adjourn as the older county housing authority board of directors. And we will reconvene this afternoon. And as the Board of County Commissioners, the Boulder County at one o'clock for a public hearing. Commissioner, are you ready? Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. And we're recording. All right, we are now back on the record. It is still the 17th of September 2026. And Commissioner Stolzman and Commissioner Levy are here for our afternoon docket consisting of a public hearing on the McWhinney earthwork and barn project that's Docket LU - 26 - 0010 and SPR 25 - 0066. We have our planner, Wesley Jeffries here with us, and we will proceed as follows. Wesley will present the case to us.

1:47:27He has up to 20 minutes to make that presentation. Commissioner Stolzman and I will have an opportunity to ask any clarifying questions we may have. We will then give the applicant up to 20 minutes to present the case as they see it to us with their proposal is. We may take that opportunity to ask questions or the applicant as well. We will then open it up for public testimony. And after that, we will invite Mr. Jeffries to make any additional comments. He feels as necessary based on what the applicant said based on what we heard in public testimony. We will then give the applicants the final word before Commissioner Schulzman and I deliberate and make a decision this afternoon before we proceed with that plan. Commissioner Stolzman, do you have any disclosures to me? I have no disclosures. Thank you. Well, I didn't think I had any disclosures until I walked into the hearing room and I see a very good old friend here who I gather, not US. I gather has an interest in this. I was not aware of that based on the location until this time, but I don't think that that would influence me or affect my ability to make an impartial decision. So. Let's take it away. Good afternoon, Commissioners.

1:48:53Wesley Jeffries, CPNP staff. We are here to discuss LU - 260010 slash SBR 250066, the McWwinney Earthwork and Barn located at 17667 Highway 7. The applicants and owners are the McWhinnies. This is a 20 acre forestry zoned parcel, and it is currently vacant. The proposal in front of us today is for Unlimited Impact Special Use Review for 3, 485 cubic yards of non - foundational earthwork and site plan review for the construction of a new 2052 square foot barn. I will note that the amendments to the land use code that went into effect August 6th happened after we received this application, and that's why this application is in front of us today. Moving to our site disturbance, we are the applicants of proposed 716 cubic yards of foundational cut and two cubic yards of foundational fill. And 1, 384 cubic yards of foundational cut and 2, 101 cubic yards of non - foundational fill. The proposed height is approximately 17. 1 feet. From existing grade.

1:50:08And the walls and roof are proposed to be made of steel with a wood grain color for the walls and roof will be black. Moving into our maps, we have a Vicinity map that shows the proposed, excuse me, the site location and context of the greater County area. We are just east of the peak to peak Highway. Then zooming in, we can see the location map. You can see that dry St. Franck Creek cuts through the south portion of the property there. We have our aerial. There is a private partially improved roadway that cuts through the property that connects it to Highway 7. Our contour, or excuse me, our comprehensive plan map has identified this as an area within the peak - to - peak scene at corridor. There are riparian areas and wetlands on the southern portion of the property roughly. Split by the roadway. So the roadway cuts through the very top of that mapped. Resource. ROVIS here. This is, this property slopes downward from that northwest corner. To the southeast corner towards that dry sink, grain creek. The applicant's narratives detail their proposed agricultural operation. They discussed that this barn is proposed to support the care and raising of livestock specifically mules. And we'll provide tech room and storage space for agricultural supplies. We have our fact sheets

1:52:00here. The structure itself will be a single story, 2000 square foot barn. We have our earthwork and grading worksheet there on the right detailing that earthwork that we discussed. Just a moment ago. We have our site plan here. So this is zoomed in into the center of the property. You can see the footprint of the resin of the barn, excuse me. Identified in blue in the very center of your screen. With the areas of disturbance, um, shown around that. Just to show the site plan in context of the overall property, um, that same blue square denotes the location of the barn. We have our elevations for the property. Or excuse me, for the barn. Another view. And then a general floor plan, uh, this will accommodate those four stalls and then have additional storage space for, uh, additional equipment and supplies. Moving into our site photo, I did want to, uh, show the access. So this is that private gravel driveway. Our roadway that cuts through the property with the build site to the viewer's left and then a mountainous meadow to the viewer's right.

1:53:30Looking back towards, uh, Highway 7 over the hill, uh, that, um, in that direction away from the viewer. We do have a picture of our proposed build site. This is an approximate location based on staking in the, uh, on the property. And then we have a panoramic view standing inside the fenced area looking out at the mountainous meadow, um, to the south of the build site. We refer. The community planning and permitting staff referred the project out to, uh, the usual entities. Those are detailed in the referral agency list on page five of the staff packet, which is, I believe, page 282 of the, um, PDF agenda. We did receive comments from Boulder County building. Boulder County, uh, access an engineering. Boulder County Parks and Open Space Natural Resource Planner, Boulder County Public Health and the Boulder County Wildfire Mitigation Team. Notices were mailed to 35 nearby property owners and we did not receive any written public comments prior to the hearing. While the actual referral responses are included in the staff packet as attachment B. 4 of the staff packet, I did want to call attention to the Development Review, Access and Engineering, uh, work group. They had several comments regarding improvements to the roadway to meet the multimodal transportation standards and the driveway within the, um, actual development site. They indicated that an

1:55:22access improvement management maintenance agreement would be required as well as a stormwater quality permit and then drainage and geotechnical reports. They also noted that the State of Colorado may require dredge and fill report. And then Boulder County Parks and Open Space Natural Resource Planner had a referral that communicated concerns regarding ecological impact from the earthwork and potential grazing in the meadow. Moving into our criteria, uh, I have not included all of these in my presentation, uh. So far, uh, but they are all detailed in the staff packet, um, at length. Criteria two regards compatibility with surrounding area, including, uh, location of structures and other improvements. Uh, number of arrangement of structures and the extent of site disturbance. While the grading north of the roadway is substantial, staff does note that significant work would be required to accommodate that physical development. However, the proposed scale of development kind of exceeds what staff would expect for the, uh, for such a proposal. Uh, of particular concern to staff are the berm north of the roadway. And the fill slope south of the roadway. The applicants engineer narrative.

1:56:51Notes that is primarily to balance site, uh, to balance the site utilizing excess cut from the, um, site as opposed to having to transport it off site. Criteria three is accordance with the comprehensive plan specifically calling out environmental resources go to that sustain and protect goal. Much of the grading north of the roadway. Is north of the identified wetland resource and that road widening and improvement is required to make county minimums. However, the depositing of that excess cut into the area south of the roadway encroaches into that natural area and is of particular concern to staff. Please excuse the roughness of this. I have identified three areas where I think we can definitely reduce. Earthwork to, uh, bring it under that excessive standard that the criteria dictates us. Uh, that is specifically that area to the south of the roadway. That barm and the second access point, uh, we are provided, the proposal provides, um, space for turnaround of trailered vehicles and standard passenger vehicles, uh, in stats view that secondary access, um, point is, uh, not necessary to provide safe and adequate physical access.

1:58:28Uh, criteria seven, the useful support a multimodal transportation system and will not result in significant negative visual negative impact to the transportation system or traffic hazards. Staff notes that the proposal, uh, must be. Slightly redesigned to meet that multimodal transportation standard and that significant offsite improvements will likely be required including addressing road width and grade concerns along that roadmate to the west. And making sure that the roadway is of an appropriate surfacing material. Criterion 13, the proposed historic use shaunette alter historic drainage patterns or flow rates. We note that the, the proximity to the dry saint, Verain Creek requires stormwater quality permit and municipal storm sewer stormwater sewer system requirements, MS4. Uh, noted that there's a hydrological analysis to confirm sizing of culvert at any creek crossing. That stormwater and revegetation would be required. Similar to the LU criteria, the site plan review criteria addressed in detail in the staff packet. I just wanted to call attention to a eight and a 13. Of Article 4806. Noting that the development shall not have significant negative visual impact on natural features of character. This is an approximately 17 foot barn in a rural mountainous setting. I don't have concern regarding the impact of the barn structure itself. Though a lighting plan will be required and we do want to make sure that we get lighting color

2:00:18and material samples at time of building permit. And finally, A13, the blanc shall be consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and intergovernmental agreement. Affecting land use or development and this code. The approximately 2000 square foot barn is consistent with the proposed scale of agricultural operations on site. And as conditioned, uh, as recommended to be conditioned the structure itself can meet the code. And comprehensive plan. Therefore, Community Planning and Permitting staff recommends that the Board of County Commissioners conditionally approve Docket LU - 26 - 0010 slash SPR 25 - 0066, which should say 66. McWwinney earthwork and barn subject to the conditions and the staff recommendation. And I welcome any questions you might have. Good. Thank you very much. Commissioner Stolzman, any questions? I don't have any questions. Thank you. Thank you. I have a couple. I was trying to go back to, um, first of all, the conditions of approval that you're recommending. And, um, specifically the concerns that Ron West expressed in his referral about the amount of, well, the height of the cut slopes, the one - to - one ratio, the slope, and, you know, all of those concerns. And whether those are all addressed in your conditions of approval. And if you could just maybe narrate a little bit how those concerns are addressed? Yes, certainly. Um, so we've required them to

2:02:00meet those multimodal transportation standards, which does dictate those maximum slopes. Um, so where the, uh, slope is greater than 1. 5 to one. It is my understanding that retaining laws will need to be in place and engineered accordingly. And then the concern about the excessive amount of fill that is going to be left on site and the berm created. Is that still in the plans. Uh, the expectation is that the, uh, excess cut would need to be removed from site and trucked off site. Okay. Do unacceptable. That is in a condition of approval. I read this like Sunday and today's Thursday. I don't remember all the conditions. Um, yeah, if you could point me to the conditions that address that, uh. That would be helpful. Uh, the most applicable one would be condition two as written. Um, the. We could revise that to require a receipt for, uh. Excuse me, a receipt for acceptance of that, um, grading. That is typically an element that is addressed at building permit. I apologize. It's not explicitly, uh, written here. Okay. Yeah. I guess I didn't see from that. So the revised plans that demonstrate that the site disturbance is strictly limited to the areas necessary. That's what encompasses the concerns about the excess fill. Yes. That was Staff intent. Okay. That it might be helpful to have

2:04:24that a little bit more explicit. Just, it's not clear, you know, the applicants might say that that's all necessary. And I did find that Mr. West's concerns were, you know, they resonated with me. Similarly, their work comments. Let me see if I can find them a little more quickly here. About the, well, the, the angle at which the driveway takes off from the road. And then that creating a very wide parking area. Is that all addressed in your conditions as well. Yes, Commissioner. That would be addressed in standard six. Six. Okay. So this is most comply. Okay. So because what was noted doesn't comply with the MMTS. This just is saying it has to comply with the MMTS. That is correct. Okay. Um, okay. And then the, the other area was concern about, um, the mule is being able to graze in the wetland area and requesting offense to keep the livestock of whatever nature it may not always be mules. Um, out of the sensitive wetland area. Is that a requirement as well? That is not an explicit requirement. The fence that is installed, uh, currently to the east of the building site, uh, appears to be set up for grazing of those mules.

2:06:07We could, uh, add a comment that explicitly restricts them to that grazing area. Um, but that is not, um, explicitly laid out in this. Okay. All right. Recommendation. It looks like the applicant's very eager to address this. And we'll, we'll get to you. And it's time for your presentation. Um, okay. So that's not, that's not explicitly. And here you were just noting current conditions and saying that looks good. That's correct, commissioner. Um, I think those were the questions that I had. So, um, now it is time for the applicant to make their presentation. And before you speak, if you could just identify yourself for the record, then you'll have a total of 20 minutes. Okay. Thank you. Can you hear me well? Um, my name is Sabina McWwinney. I'm the applicant and I wanted to share a little bit with what we're trying to do.

2:07:02And especially, um, address those grazing concerns. I put together a whole grazing plan. For you. So, but first I wanted to introduce a project. Oh, we already started. Okay. Um, here we go. Okay. Um, I guess I'll put that here. Okay. So, um, we're looking to do a little bit more than just build a bar and put some animals on the, on the place. We're looking for a safe home and for brighter tomorrow in our project. On the left, you see Miss Stella, Mr. Chrome Miss Dahli. Here we go again, Ms. Dolly is super sweet. Miss Stella is our spik sea leader of the pack. And Mr. Chrome loves snacks. And he's balances the herd. Um, what's important to know is, is when they first came to us, they were very, felt very displaced. A move of that, um, they came from three different places together. And mules are very sensitive animals. Like most people probably know. And it took, take them a while to feel safe with each other. And when they form a hood, they really, um, become a family. Um, our challenges are that we're renting right now. And the property sold where we're at, um, we're only on a 60 day lease. And we can easily lose that space and they would have to be torn apart again. And we would

2:08:30have to scatter them across the state trying to find space for them. So it's very important that they stay together. Um, let's see what else to have to share. Let's see. Um, so they've created this family and it's much more than having another animal nearby. The hood provides the sense of security. When one rests, another one's watching. As you know, the mountain lions and bears and things up there, um, when something unfamiliar happens, they look to eat one another and the relationship they create stability, predictability in their world. Over time, Ms. Dolly, Mistella, Mr. Krum have developed that security with one another. After everything involved in bringing them together and helping them become comfortable, I do not want to break that bond and separate them, you know, all over the place. Um, here we go.

2:09:26And, um, it's also important to know what they give back to people. There's another part of the story that's difficult to communicate until you have actually stood beside one of those animals. Um, there is something incredibly peaceful about being around a mule. They don't care about somebody's job or income age status or problems. They simply meet you where you are. They're naturally, people are naturally drawn to them and visitors actually stop by and say hello and people smile when they see them. You want to talk to them, touch them and be around them because they have wonderful healing and calming powers to people. I don't know if you've ever had the pleasure to be around animals, but they're just beautiful. And they built that connection. Um, so as I said, now we have the problem that, um, the current situation is the property sold, we're renting, you know, they want to have their own animals there. They're very patient with us so far. But times running out and projects taking longer than we expected. Here we go. And separating them would really be devastating using that connection and the hood. And also how to even manage that if they've been three different places, be very difficult for us. Um, this is the barn. This is much bigger than the actual born because that's the best

2:10:50picture that was close enough I could find online. Um, so, um, I think we already showed all the outlays of that. Um, and it will provide a safe space. It's weather resistance. It's a very strong bond. It's a more denbarance. So I don't know if you know much about bonds, but Morton is very, very sturdy. Um, it will meet all the requirements. Um, and the biggest part is, is there's a big space in the barn and that's all for hay. So farmers cut in September and they cut again in June. Um, this year, because of the drought, they weren't allowed to water. So they don't even have September cut. So we are looking at more and more of a need to really store a lot of hay in order to meet the feeding requirements for the animals. So that's why the barn is so size it is. We figured that out that it would have enough space for that hay that we're going to meet through the winter. And just with all the snow load at times, it's hard to get in hay in and out. So we want to make sure we have that space. So that's the size of the bond. And, you know, keeping the hertz together and reaching out to community, to building community around that we've already had neighbors, um,

2:12:03very excited about it, telling us they look forward to meeting the mules and having them there. Um, we also have been focusing since we bought the lands towards stewards of the land and to be good neighbors. That's the concept that's known in the mountains to be a good neighbor. You're just there for each other and help each other. Um, we have spent money without getting neighbor support and already improving the road. We've started that. We've had people out doing fire mitigation already twice this year and just really, we do live in the mountains. So we understand mountain living and what's required. And we're really looking to, to give to that community and develop that. And the mules are a big part of that for the beauty of the land. And see. And the barn is not just about constructing something extravagant. That's not what we're looking to do. We're creating a safe space that's functional, a permanent agricultural structure with these animals can be properly cared for. Um, it would provide shelter for, uh, for the changing weather. For the, as I said, for the feeding and the hay of veterinarian space, if the vets have to come out in the middle of the winter or something happens, right. And everyday marriagem. Um, and it will keep my three mules together. They've become a wonderful,

2:13:25beautiful family. And it would create that permanence. At the same time, we're looking to respect the land. So, um, understanding that living in Boulder County carries a responsibility, respect the land, neighboring properties, the rural character of the area and the regulation that protects those things. Our goal is not to change the character of the property. Our goal is to create a bond that fits naturally into the agricultural role setting and allows us to responsibly care for these animals. We want the property to remain beautiful. We want the bind to complete its surroundings. And we want to be responsible stewards of the land. So my request is to consider our application respectively asking that you look beyond the dimensions of the building and the side plan consider why we're asking to build it. Um, the area that we are looking to flatten basically a little bit, or, you know, at a lower slope, we're looking to be able to pull in with the trailers and turn them around. Cause right now there's no turnaround place. Right now we cannot access that space because there's no place.

2:14:36It's just the road. And I can't turn that vehicle around with the trailer for the animals. Um, and also it can create a space where fire trucks or ambulances can get into now with the road improvements we're going to do, which doesn't exist currently. It's very hard to access. Um, on that wobbly small narrow road. And then the place to turn around, I think the only one is way up the hill on somebody's property, but you can't turn around until you get there. Um, so, so that's really what we're looking to do is that we can park the trail out there. We can pull in, we can turn around. That's why we want it to widen the road a little bit so that we can move back around. Because it's kind of narrow there even to be able to do that. So that's the only reason why we wanted that flatter space next to the barn that we have the ability actually function with the animals and to provide also that space for fire trucks, ambulance and those kind of support people. Also if somebody is trying to get out and the fire drugs are coming in right now, you basically face to face and you can't, you know, they can't get around each other.

2:15:42So that would give a spot for us for people to pull into and let those, um, vehicles pass and so that that kind of, um, dangerous situation doesn't occur. Yep. So, um, so behind the drawings, that's really living animals. You know, Miss Dahli, Miss Stella and Mr. Chrome. And I know everything's very technical here, but to me, you know, my heart is just with my animals. Um, yeah, they're part of my family. And I just love to have a Putment home for them. I'm getting cheery, sorry. Um, so let me show you the grazing plan too, because I heard the concerns and they're important in their matters. So let me go over to the grazing plans. And we will talk about that next. So I'm close this one. There's my three babies. Let me see if I can get this pulled up here. Let's see.

2:16:40Slideshow from the beginning. Here we go. Um, so I did quite a bit of research before we did the whole proposal of talked with Robin who has quite a bit of knowledge about, um, about how to keep spaces nice and lush. And I did some more research. So here is a land stewardship in grazing plan. So we're looking to do four areas. Right now we've got the three areas fenced in. The first one is the bigger that's already fenced. The bigger field. That is more of the recreational area for the mule. Provide space for them to move freely, exercise, rest and socialized in a healthy outdoor environment. Second field is that wetland below, we're grazing will be kept very minimal and carefully timed. And it's a part of the whole plan of keeping the land healthy. And then there's two pens, one will be attached to the barn. And then there's a second small pen.

2:17:40There's for the shorter duration of time for the animal. But the idea is this to have these four spaces. Using a holistic plan crazing principles prepared for you today. Um, here's a core proposal. You use the livestock movement as management lands towards chip tool, not simply as a fixed rotation. You divide the usable area into four management zones, two fields and two pens. You move animals based on forage conditions and plant recovery, not on a rigid calendar. It gives grazed areas in enough recovery time for plans to rebuild before returning livestock. Um, you use short intentional periods of animal concentration. We're appropriate to distribute manure implant material. Monitoring soil cover, plant vigor, background, water infiltration, runoff indicators and manure distribution. Adjust the plan as condition change. So the manure, if you use it, um, sensibly can be a very healthy way to get those plans to grow. Um, and anything in excess, of course, we haul that off. Um, and then, um, the objective is to, is a measurable management system that protects land quality and can improve ecological function over time. So we're not just wanting to keep it. We're actually looking to find ways to improve some of that grazing area, especially the part that's on the north side because that, um, was quite damaged through the floods and the growth is not

2:19:22very good there. Here the four areas again, they can support adaptive grazing field one is the one acre that's currently fenced. It's the primary recreational area. Like we said before, um, for them to rest and walk and play, um, then the second one is that wetland. And that's only a partial, but it's only wet in the spring. The rest, it's bone dry right now. Um, and that we want very minimal, um, exposure there. And you have to remember the alksa on there too. Right. They come, it's just three mules. It's not a herd of 500 mules. It's just three. And the X coming race. There are times two. So if you keep grazing times minimal, um, the manure can actually be very helpful in those. And then the two pins. Let's see. So field one is the primary recreational place where we talked about that.

2:20:16Um, we talked about that. So here, um, feeding strategy, Hey brought onto the property. So that's key. There's not enough hay there anywhere for them to be having enough food. So like I said, we need that space in the barn to have that hay. Um, that hay though brings nutrients. With it through the manure. Um, and I always buy a very nice hay. So very green. I don't, you know, it's very, very high quality Hey that gets the majority of the mules feeding will come from hay brought onto the property from an outside source. This reduces the reliance on the property grazing areas as a primary source for daily nutrition. The field one can therefore function primarily as the healthy area for recreation. It doesn't have a lot of, um, grass in it. But we're looking to improve that over time. Um, fear two, which does have grass in it. We want to keep that very minimal, but it's nice to have that space just so they can move, you know, they're big animals. They need to have some room to move. Um, and then the two smaller pans is a more controlled area where there would be for longer periods. If I go to work and things like that, there would be in that space. And the nutrients from the imported hay can return

2:21:39to the property through manure and urine contributing to the nutrition cycle. Here's how the grazing plan could work. Number once we observe, I'm going to have to pull this up because I can't read that up there. Sorry. I'll get that in. So, um, number one, we observe. So we check for forage condition, plant recoveries, sol cover, background, moisture, and weather. And number two, we select. So we choose the areas that can tolerate raising now while protecting recovery elsewhere. And that's that whole rotation. It's done by farmers quite a bit too. And when they have organic farming, they use the multi field approach. Um, three is to concentrate. Keep animals together for intentional limited period when animals impact is useful. Enforce move before repeated grazing of recovery plans becomes a problem. You move them to the other field. Recovery allow the graced area to recover, return only when plants are ready. Watch vegetation soil moisture manure distribution and other land indicators and adjust conditions as they change. You want to make sure that what you're doing is successful. Um, let's see here. Um, it's a part of the nutrient cycle, but management matters. Livestock return nutrients to the lantern manuarin making animal waste part of the nutrient cycle. Um, savory, which is an institute here in Boulder describes plant animal impact as combining, grazing, trampling, dung

2:23:12and urine to psychonutrients and keep soil covered. The goal is appropriate distribution rather than excessive accumulation. Concentrating areas can be evaluated for manure buildup, much compaction order or runoff. Um, where a pen is used to constitute animals, the timing and duration can be considered in relation to soil and vegetation conditions. X is manure could create a negative impact and build therefore be halt offside. Um, and then here is what would we measure? What are we looking for as we're looking to improve the areas? Um, vegetation plant vigor desirable species regrowth in standing forage. Soil cover percent bare ground, little plant residue invisible erosion. Um, so just watch the ground over time. How is it doing water? You know, we want to look evidence of infiltration versus runoff. If the problem, I don't see much water problem up there. Um, cause it's more of a drier area anyways. But at times there could be, you know, heavier water coming down. Um, soil condition, we're looking for organic matter soil test when appropriate and compaction indicators. And then the manure distribution I already talked about that, you know, we want to be smart about it. Use it as a helpful tool by using just the right amount of it. And the adoption is to use observed conditions and results to adjust future grazing decisions. You know, we

2:24:45just adjust to whatever you're seeing so that you can figure out how to do that. Um, and then here is a little bit off. References that we're used to put this plan together. We have the 2011 study. Then the 2021 South is Jewish study. 21, the study done from California and then the saber Institute. So these are the studies that were into the information of the saber Institute, which is a Boulder based company that does is around the world. They re - vegetate totally dry areas out of Africa and in all kinds of spaces. And what they are teaching is what I used to put this plan together. So again, highlights of the Plan. Hey, I'm got one minute 30 seconds left. Highlights of the Plan, a defined four area grazing system, two fields and two pins, primary recreation is the current defense field. Wetland is very minimal grazing. Um, and then majority of the mules feeding will come from hay brought in on outside sources, reducing reliance on raising areas for daily nutrition and allowing greater emphasis of plant recovery and land condition. Grazing is considered around plant recovery, whether forage conditioning ground conditions rather than fixed calendar. Minu Enduring can return nutrients to the land as part of the nutrient cycle. Excessive manure that can hurt will be hard off. Um, and then

2:26:22as far as, um, things that were, I think you already covered it, but when we talked about the brim in the fill, we never wanted that fill to go into that wetland area. The engineer did not do that the way we asked them to do it. And I don't know how to read those plans. So I didn't notice it, but Wes did. What would make a lot more sense is used most of it as a base for the road. And then, you know, not the top base, but like a stabilizing base we had already discussed that actually with a road professional is that we can use that to, you know, do the work on the road. And if there is access, we can still haul that off. But, um, from what he was thinking is that we could use all of it for the road because the road needs quite a bit of coverage. And then you do another lay on top. You will have to wrap up. I'm, I'm right. I was just, thank you for your time. I'm very excited what this project and in creating a space for the mules and, you know, and we've gotten lots of wonderful feedback from the neighbors. We're excited to live in that neighborhood eventually. But for now, we just really need to have a place

2:27:26for our animals. And that's it. And thank you. Thank you very much for the presentation and the explanation. Commissioner Stoulzman questions. I don't have any questions, but thank you very much. Thank you. Um, I have just a couple. So, uh, you're not going to live on site, obviously. There's just going to be the barn. How are the animals going to be minded and kept safe and all of this rotation and in and out and all of that. How is that going to be? We live only 10 minutes away. So we live, um, by Long Speak. So we're just up the road where we currently live. And right now I'm doing the same thing where I'm driving to the other property caring for them. And then, um, Peggy, um, she's a horse lady. She lives right across the field and she's very excited for the mules to come. And she said, if I have any help, she'll be happy to go over there and help out.

2:28:23But, um, I've been managing this myself in the mornings and in the evening. So I have a young lady that does that for me. Okay. I'm doing it right now. So it would just be the same thing. It's I think five more minutes of drive, maybe six. What I'm currently doing. And, um, you're, there's no water, on site. Is that correct? Um, we do have the Statewell permit already. And we're just waiting for the drill company to have time to put the water on there. And we're going to do a, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but there's, um, faucets that goes so deep in the ground that they don't freeze in the winter. I'm not sure what the name of them are, but that's what we're going to install by the field.

2:29:05Then. Okay. But when the water comes to the surface and sits in a trough, it will freeze. How are you going to keep the water from freezing? Well, there's two ways to do it. Um, at the Bond, we're currently at this when we didn't have water flow, we would just bring in our big buckets where put hot water in and I'll just bring it in. But we're also looking to put some solar in this space. You know, as soon as we can do that. Oh, okay. I don't know. Was that in the plans that were reviewed? Wesley Jeffrey CPP staff. No, there was not. Okay. Thank you. Um, that would probably have to be submitted and approved as part of your plans. Okay. I didn't play like that. Okay. Um, but, but, but it goes without it too. We can haul it in in the morning and they'll be fine. Okay. Thank you. Um. Uh, and well, and would you, so often in I'll ask, um, I'll ask Wesley this question a little bit later on. Sometimes when we're seeing agricultural operations, we ask for an agricultural management plan to be submitted and actually approved as a condition of approval. Would you be amenable to having the plan that you presented incorporated into your conditions of approval that would require you to adhere to those

2:30:30plans. Just what I showed you. Just make it a part of. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Uh, I think those are the questions I had. Thank you very much. Thank you. So we will know, um, have the public hearing portion of this and we'll see who has signed up to testify. Dakarus, you are first on the list. And I'll just remind you that you all have three minutes. And we'll ask you to just identify yourself before you begin speaking and before we start the clock. Sentence. Again. I said we'll ask you to identify yourself before you begin speaking and before we start the clock. Yeah. And you'll come to the podium and speak into the microphone, please. This is just. A. Technical thing. Well, we can't, you're not on the record if you're walking to us and talking. You're not what you're saying is not going to be in the record. Okay. With that, um, why don't you provide your testimony. And if, is that a page in the application, it looks from where I'm sitting like it is in the packet. Yeah. Um, I think it'd just be cleaner. If you could just speak. And I might want to take a moment to consult it a little bit later.

2:32:10Uh. Into their packets. I did not receive a let. From you. No. Coffee. Two. Commissioners. And. I'm sorry. Oh, I'm digitizing. That. Record. So my name is Dick Harris and we own property that is adjacent to this in Allenspark. Okay. The packet was 69 pages long, I believe. Timing is going. I found many portions of the packet that concluded with language similar to staff find this condition can be met. Presumably you will other hearing or more before the project can proceed. Then you will determine what has been done. Uh, hopefully future efforts can be in the public domain. Now I'm no expert on grading. But one of the requirements was to reduce the slope of the road from the highway onto the private road. And I'm thinking that's very likely that will cause hundreds of thousands of dollars to do that. Um, and with the other road changes, the cost of all the proposed work could be in hundreds of thousands of dollars. So it leaves me with doubt that this project will ever go forward.

2:34:01There have been similar projects involving animals spending the winter in Allen's Park. And usually they end after a few years. And I've always assumed that's because of the cold winters in Ellen's park. I think that will be a problem here too. Uh, and what that does in this case, it will leave a useless bar surrounded by considerable unnatural grading. And I just ask of you and the McWhinney's are aware that approving this request may waste considerable county and private funds. Thanks related to the comp plan. Um. First, first of all, as she mentioned, there are mountain lions and foxes. And coyotes and maybe a few stray mountain. Wolves. That are in this area. So I wonder about the safety of the animals. Now, I've found the McWainneys to be very pleasant. Their passion for mules is unusual. And interesting. I do worry, however, that they have purchased the wrong piece of property. Perhaps a property in the agricultural zone would be better and fit their needs better. And that's. I'll point out one more thing that I missed here. We've got five minutes. Um, there's less than 15 acres of buildable space because of the wetland down below. In the rope. It will take those uses. So thank you for looking at this. Okay. Appreciate it. Thank you. And, and we were handed a copy

2:35:56of your letter while you were speaking. So we have that in front of us. Yeah. Yeah. We also have Robin Lockwood signed up. Is that you. Yes, it is. Oh, okay. Do I need to turn this on? Nope. It will pick you up, but move it nice and close. Okay. Um, yes, I am basically a caretaker for the Valdez family. Could you say your name please for the record? Robin Lockwood. Yeah. And, uh, that's at 17661 State Highway 7 is the property that I'm a caretaker for. And I've been there for 15, actually 16 years now. And so basically I have witnessed the fact that flood in 2013 literally stripped all the topsoil off of that northern slope. Um, it used to be, and in 2010, the summer of 2010, there were wildflowers across that entire hill. And I assumed or was hoping that it would be a good property for bees, even though it's high altitude. However, now the only thing that is on that, that slope is no topsoil. There's basically three different types of grass that have managed to ribe. And it is, it is pretty sparse. And it's the word that I think was enlisted as one of the problems with that property. In 20 prior to 2015, Alan Savory. Had started in South Africa teaching Institute for, um,

2:37:49grazing and for damaged ground recovery. And what he has discovered over the years and the fact that he put his, his second office here in Boulder County. Is what I got interested in years ago. But one of the few ways to really truly recuperate topsoil, especially at our altitude, is natural grazing. And it has to be managed. And one of the things that amazes me is I think that Ian and Sabina understand exactly how to go about that. The savor institute is quite comprehensive on their renewal plans for how to go about studying the soil composition, the plant composition, and how to rebuild organically, which I think is really important. And probably one of the best aspects other than the fact that they have done the road already, um, to a great deal, uh, the start of the road has been well filled in as a nice and level. It's not eroded. And, um, and then on the Valdez property, they filled in quite a lot of space and rough road already. And I don't feel like I need to educate either one of them among mountain living. They know it already. Okay. Thank you very much. For joining us Brianna, or I'm not sure who's back there, Brianna John, did anyone join us online who wanted to speak on this case. Hi, Chairley

2:39:38B, Brian, a barber commissioner's office staff. At this time, there is no one else in the Virtual Meeding Room that would like to give public comment on this matter. Thank you. All right. Thank you. So we will close the public testimony. Wesley, is there anything you'd like to share with us based on what we've heard. Wesley Jeffries, CPP staff. Not at this time, unless you were interested in a grazing plan condition, we could provide language for you. Well, we'll see whether that's something that, uh, that we want to do. Um, I, I did have a couple more questions, but let me first ask Commissioner Stolzman, if you had anything else. I don't have any questions. Okay. Um, so I wanted to, um, I'm sorry, but you already had your chance to speak and we can't reopen the public. Well, all. To identify themselves with driver's licenses. We don't require our driver's license identification. I'm not sure everybody in this room is who they say they are. Is what? I'm. Not sure that everybody who's spoken to you. Is giving their accurate name. Okay. Well, that's, that's, we, we do accept what people say, um, and so we're not going to require proof of identification. Um, the question I have is the comment about where the access road joins Highway 7 and the grade there and

2:41:16the extent of improvements that my be required. And that's not on the McWinney property. So, um, I'm wondering. Whether that's been addressed. Let me just get to the right section of the paragraph of our Wesley Jeffrey CPP staff. Okay. Can I say something real quick about, we'll give you an opportunity at the end. Thank you. I believe the references to the, uh, great at the curve immediately after the approach at State Highway 7, uh, which exceeds the maximum allowable six percent grade. Is that accurate? Well, that you wrote it or somebody wrote it. I don't know. I just want to make sure we're, we're discussing the same, uh, location. Uh, yes, there are, uh, requirements in the MMTS, uh, that do require, um, that may require an applicant to do offsite improvement, uh, including such, uh, regretting, um, through this area. Okay. And that's usually called out as an offsite improvement that may require permission from the property owner. And I don't know what sorts of maintenance agreements and things that already exist on this road are and whether that would be allowable under those relationships. I think we had another land use application way up at the end of this road. A number of years ago. And there was some question as to whether the applicant actually had the ability to make

2:43:06those improvements. I do know that the, uh, access agreement is a recorded document. I believe I may be mistaken in this that there is a conversation in that document regarding maintenance, uh, requirements. However, I would have to defer to our access and engineering team, um, for, uh, that technical interpretation. Okay. Thank you. And then I, um, I didn't think of this when you made your original presentation. It wasn't until they presented their grazing plant or the applicant presented heart grazing plan. That when, when do we actually require, um, that, that sort of thing to be submitted and approved as a condition. That would be on a case by case basis. Uh, as defined, uh, in this instance, uh, in my view as a non agricultural, I'm not a farmer as much as I like to think that I know everything. If there are particular resources that we're concerned about, uh, protecting. That's when we would request that, uh, in this case, I think the mountain meadow would be, um, however, it was my, um, understanding that the primary grazing area would be that area north of the roadway. Okay. And I'm trying to get back to Ron West. S comment. On that.

2:44:42Looks like the primary concern was with the amount of grading. Resources would be destroyed. Okay. So fencing the meadow should be a condition of approval. Small nano grass production is unlikely neat supplemental feed year round. How would this occur? Okay. It sounds like he didn't identify a need for a grazing plan. So, um, those were the two questions I had. Thank you. And now we'll give you an opportunity for any wrap up additional comments and any closing statements you wanted to make. Thank you. Um, I just want to just some things I heard. I wanted to just talk about it. The property zone for horses. So, um, when we bought it, we assumed we can use it for horses and mules. So, um, I don't think it needs to be an agricultural property. Like was required.

2:45:53I'm asked for by Mr. Harris. Mountain lion's Muleston have problems with mountain lions. Um, they can manage them, um, as a matter of fact, usually the mule wins. Um, they've already spent the winter up there. We live in the area. We've had the animals there. They're not going to die from the cold weather. Plus, that's why we have the barn. So to have them at night, I'll bring them in. We keep our animals for their lifetime. Whether it's a dog or a cat or a mule. We are not the kind of people that just are in and out of an animal's life. So that's not what we do. And we're very, very committed to them. So just want to make sure I share that. I don't know it has not much to do with the whole plan, but just because that was brought up, I wanted to make sure I address that. So there won't be like an empty space that for no reason that we're not those kind of people. Um, the grading were very aware of that at the beginning of the road.

2:46:49We already last year spent quite a bit of money to get that improved. And we're going to work on that slope further this year. I'm waiting here back from the road person to see you and he can fit me in their scars. Ability to, they're not so easily available up in Estus Park, but I'm honest, list as soon as he has time, he's going to look on that. When we did that last year, I tried to reach out to as many owners as we can. Um, I did talk to the owner that has that first parcel. The first in beginning and then the owner where Robin lives. And they were both fine with it as long as they didn't have to pay for it. So they were happy for us to do that. Um, and we're aware that that grading needs to be done further.

2:47:37Because we wouldn't be able to do the trailers anyways. You know, it has to have a little less of slope. So, so we understand that that's a part of the whole project. And we were prepared to do that anyways. Um, trying to think of what else came up. Are there any other concerns that outstanding to approve this that I need to address. I mean, this is your opportunity. Here I've asked the questions I have commercial Stolzman didn't have any questions. So I think it's really just up to you. Okay. Um, I think the whole retaining was all that the engineer has put that together. And their fan horn, the Ester's Park, they know the mountain properties. They know the area. And he carefully put that together to make sure that on the run of works that it can be washed out. So, you know, the whole plan, he spent quite a bit of time and we spend quite a bit of money to have a very good plan. So I think that's all incorporated. And I think anything that was missing, Wesley addressed that we talked through each point so that we understood what else he needs and what prepared to provide whatever Wesleyan and the County wants to make sure that this is properly done in a good way and sustainable. So. Okay. And

2:48:48I'm excited for you to spend this time with me today and for me to be able to present this. And we're excited to have a place for animals. And we bought this property, you know, because of that, because it was known for horses. And because we wanted to create that in our lives and in the community. So. Thank you. Thank you for your proposal for explaining it to us. I do just have one question. Um, just on just there was a number of conditions of approval that the staff was recommending, um, on the analysis that would require some changes on your end. I just want to make sure you understood those. I understood about the brim and about where the, um, where the dirt is placed. Um, and then the different plans that we'll need to be submitted and that we wouldn't start working until all of those things are permitted and all of those things. Yeah. And the permitting comes after this meeting is what I'm understanding. Right. And then, yeah, but just that it wouldn't start until all of that was taken care of. Right. Right. I understand that. And I think from what I'm learning is I can just go back to Van Horn engineering and they can provide these plans for us. And, you know, that we will get going on

2:50:02that as far as the permitting for the barn, Morton already has all the engineering plants ready to go. We're ready to submit them as soon as we can for all the requirement like wind and snow load and all that stuff. That's already figured out for the barren. So thank you. Sure. I did think of one more question. I'm sorry. So this is not a human occupied structure. This is a barn. Do we issue certificates of occupancy? There are a number of conditions that are phrased in terms of Wesley Jeffery CPMP staff. Uh, yes. I apologize. I did mean to address that in my, uh, presentation where it says certificate of occupancy requests that you change that to final inspection. There were a couple, uh, outliers that made it into the final report. That was my, uh, my mistake. Okay. And final inspection is what is, is that something that's in our code. And we know what it is. Yes. Commissioner. That is, uh, that is the last step of a, of a building permit, uh, that would not be required receiving that, uh, certificate vocabancy.

2:51:09Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um, I think those are the questions I had. So, um, we can now, um, deliverate on this application and reach a decision, I hope. Do you want any of this started. I'm sorry you won. I was just asking if you wanted to get us. Oh, well, I'm, I'm happy to get us started. So I think, first of all, just to say, um, the love for the animals and the care of the animals, um, is really not something we can consider. We have to consider the criteria for approval. And the analysis by, um, the access and engineering via our natural resource manager, all of those things. And so whatever we do here today is really not, um, it's not a judgment or an evaluation of your commitment to your animals. It's really just based on the criteria that we have. Um, I, um, the reason I asked, um, a bit about the conditions of approval is it does look like there would have to be some pretty substantial revisions to the, um, to the driveway access and to the, you know, the grading plans. And so, um, I do want to make sure that the conditions will bring it into compliance with the MMTS and not have excessive Cotton fill, not have excessively high berms, um, have slopes that can be revegetated

2:52:53and are going to hold. So it appears that the conditions of approval are adequate for that. Um, I do think I would like a condition of approval that requires that fencing the Wetland riparian area. I think it's called to be fenced off from grazing, um, Ron West had a line on a map. That indicated where that should be. And he, he, it seemed he was quite firm that that should be a condition of approval. Um, I don't, I haven't been to the site and I don't know the condition of the land up there. If we have another winter and spring and summer like the one we just had, I would be very, very concerned about overgrazing. And so I think I would like to have the grazing plan incorporated as a condition of approval to make sure that Hey is brought in from offsite if needed. I think incorporating the grazing plan makes sense. I think that's in conflict with offense. Like the two things don't match. So that's the issue with it. I think incorporating the grazing plan because it says that it won't, it says it won't graze on areas that don't have enough forage, I think was the term that was used and that it wouldn't be, like it wouldn't be grazed while the wetlands were present. And so I think it

2:54:22makes a lot of sense to incorporate the grazing plan. But I think that that is in conflict with the fence. I could not make that determination just based on Ron West's line. Um, maybe you could elaborate a little bit more on that. Do you have the page number handy? I do remember the red line. 65 is a red line existing. Just give me one moment. I think from Wesley said there may be offense in that location already. Right. But so you see in that photo. The slightly different colors of tan area is a seasonal is the seasonal wetlands. And so that was one of the fields that was referenced as being grazed occasionally, but not the primary field. So, I mean, there is a fence there, but the grazing plan as it was described to us today had the animals in there from time to time. I guess without seeing, I mean, the grading, grazing plan didn't have maps to show that delineation of those areas? It was described like on each side of the roadway as how I was determining that just from the written description that was presented. Yeah. And I can't tell what this is intended to fence out or in. So I'm not sure how to resolve this. Um. Maybe, well, I guess I, I would like maybe to give, um,

2:56:07Wesley just a chance. Can you elaborate here on whether, whether that, um, requiring an exclusionary fencing per Ron West's figure one in his referral, would that impact the grazing plan that the applicant presented and I'll ask the applicant the same question? That would likely I haven't had an opportunity to, uh, analyze the grazing plan in depth. But yes, Wesley Jeffrey CPP staff, excuse me. Okay. I just can't really, just from this red line on, on this photograph, aerial photograph, I can't tell whether that's intended to keep grazing out from the entire area below that or what it is. That was how I took it. That was, but if you overlay sort of, if you were to imagine taking this photo that Ron We drew the red line on and sort of overlay that with the comprehensive plan map that shows the area that has moisture, it's the area below that red line roughly. Yeah. Okay.

2:57:11Seasonal moisture. Since we have asked for Ron's or from Wesley's input, could you explain your understanding of, yeah. I think, um, and if you could just, I'm sorry, identify yourself. Just the benemic, we need the abdicant. I think the gentleman that raises the concern about grazing in the wetland did not have the chance to see our comprehensive grazing plan and just assume that we would just let them grace and craze down to the ground, which is not at all what we're looking to do. And I think it's laid out very well in the plan. Um, excluding fencing would basically eliminate that second field in the grazing plan, which kind of stops us from being able to move them around. To regrow the areas more efficiently. So it kind of would stop the ability to execute the grazing plan where it can enhance the land. Um, the wetland area would only be used minimal. So very little grazing, but the whole nutrients through the manure and urine that can actually add to that area, we wouldn't be able to do that if we would exclude fencing there. And the gentleman at race, that concern didn't know that we wanted to do that very responsiblely. You know, you could just assume you put the animals there and we don't buy any hay and we let them grace

2:58:34to the ground in that situation. Of course, it would make sense to exclude that area. But that's not what we're looking to do. We're looking to be very responsible about it minimal grazing. We're looking to include the grazing plan in the application. So we're making a commitment to doing it in that manner. So I think to exclude any fencing would be in contradiction to what we're looking to do. Okay. So I think if we do incorporate the grazing plan, I feel like that would be adequate, uh, protection for this riparian area. Yeah. And it's an obvious interest. You know, we own the land. We want it to be beautiful. We love that area. And it's a part of the value of the land. So we have no interest of, you know, just, Hey, it's cheap compared to the value of the land. So we're not going to be doing that for many reason. Number one, it's beautiful. Number two, we love land. We're not the kind of people that do that. I'm sure you do.

2:59:33And I'm not questioning your commitment. Um, these are documents that run with the land. And there could be a future owner that may not be as sensitive as you are. So I'm not questioning your intentions or your commitment. Yeah, but we're going to move back to deliberation, I think, at this point. Thank you. Yeah. So those were my, my thoughts. I do want to make sure that all the concerns about, um, the grading, the amount of grading, were incorporated. It looks like they are based on the dialogue with, uh, with Wesley, yes. And so that's, I was looking, um, at those things too with the amount of grading and the changes that would need to be made. So were you saying we need to do anything to modify the conditions or it was satisfactory? No, I think they are. So I understand that they do incorporate all of the concerns about compliance with the MMTS and the grading standards that we have. All right. So we are talking about currently, um, adding a condition to incorporate the grazing plan as a condition. Um, and then.

3:00:38They're in modifying or two instances, perhaps. We're referred to as certificate of occupancy that needs to be final inspection. Okay. Condition 16. And. Five, I think we're the only two. That I saw. Okay. Anything else. Okay. That is supplies the things that I was looking at. All right. If you'd like to make a motion. Certainly. I would move that we conditionally approved our LU - 26 dash zero zero one zero slash SPR 25 - 0066 changing. The language about. Certificate of occupancy to final inspection in condition 16 and five and adding a condition requiring the grazing plan B included in the. Approval. Submittal of a grading plan or adherence to the grading plan as a condition of approval. Yes. Adherence to the grazing plan as a condition of approval. Thank you. Okay. I'll second that motion. Um, all in favor say aye. So, um, congratulations. You are approved. And we just, we look forward to seeing this project come to fruition and hope that everything works out as you've outlined it. So that is our last agenda item for today. So we're adjourned.